# More sovereign citizen goodness **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 29, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478 "2015-07-29T14:48:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/81 "2015-07-31T05:57:17Z")
A “sovereign citizen” in Ohio tried to claim ownership of 11 houses by basically breaking into them and changing the locks. > **[Grand jury indicts Ohio 'sovereign citizen' accused of trying to steal 11 homes](https://www.rawstory.com/2013/12/grand-jury-indicts-ohio-sovereign-citizen-accused-of-trying-to-steal-11-homes/)** > > A grand jury indicted an Ohio “sovereign citizen” who tried to steal 11 homes by moving in and filing a “quiet title” to claim ownership.Prosecutors said Robert Carr found empty houses in the Cincinnati area, changed the locks and filed court... [http://www.wlwt.com/news/man-accused-of-claiming-abandoned-homes-pleads-guilty/24776884](http://www.wlwt.com/news/man-accused-of-claiming-abandoned-homes-pleads-guilty/24776884) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/82 "2015-07-31T06:04:28Z")
Best part “They have all of the rights of a US citizen without following any of their laws.” “Well that would just be pure anarchy if that were the case.” ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/83 "2015-07-31T21:15:03Z")
The thing that always gets me about these people: Due to Ohio not being a state, the gold fringe on a flag, yadda-yadda, … they think they can ignore any law they want. What go thru all the rigmarole? Just jump straight to “I’m going to ignore the law.” Much, much simpler. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/84 "2015-07-31T21:22:41Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > The thing that always gets me about these people: Due to Ohio not being a state, the gold fringe on a flag, yadda-yadda, … they think they can ignore any law they want. > > What go thru all the rigmarole? Just jump straight to “I’m going to ignore the law.” Much, much simpler. But you have to know the correct sequence that _allows_ you to ignore the laws. Otherwise, you’re just a freeloading moron. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/85 "2015-07-31T23:05:24Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > No, I bet it doesn’t! That also sounds hilarious, though. And it’s why I specified passive _acquiescence_. But please, tell me more about these people! > [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Yes, want to know too. Any stories about it really aren’t that interesting. A prisoner refuses to come out of his cell, you go in and carry him out. A prisoner refuse to take off his clothes for a strip search, you take off his clothes. A prisoner refuses to take showers, you hose him down. The most controversial form of refusal, as indicated by a recent thread, is when a prisoner refuses to eat. In Europe, apparently, they let them die. In the United States, we feed them. > [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Actually, if you haven’t already, a “Ask the former prison guard” thread would be pretty nice. Most of what people, including me, know about prison comes from movies and TV shows which is subpar. It’s been done. [Ask the Prison Guard](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=436213). Also [I work in a military prison. Ask me anything](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=631030), [Ask the maximum security prison physician](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=150626), [Corrections Officers: Your Opinions on Your Job Wanted](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=392730), and [What is Day to Day Life Like in a Maximum Security Prison?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=397217). ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/86 "2015-08-02T12:31:57Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > But you have to know the correct sequence that _allows_ you to ignore the laws. > > Otherwise, you’re just a freeloading moron. Also known as a ‘free-m’on’, or ‘freeman.’ Now I know where they got the term! ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/87 "2015-08-02T15:08:01Z")
I just saw this [compilation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCozh_vbYdM) of sovereign citizens failing to succeed. I couldn’t make it past the second clip, because the crying child turned it from amusing to tragic. However, I did get to hear the immortal line “you just tased my nuts! That’s an inappropriate use of that device!” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/88 "2015-08-02T15:49:17Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I just saw this [compilation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCozh_vbYdM) of sovereign citizens failing to succeed. I couldn’t make it past the second clip, because the crying child turned it from amusing to tragic. However, I did get to hear the immortal line “you just tased my nuts! That’s an inappropriate use of that device!” Oh, this is going to keep me up all night. The compilation has just a bit of a video from each incident; there are links to the full videos though. I’m watching the second incident’s full link right now. It almost killed me when the cops proceeded to physically remove the idiot from the vehicle and the idiot shouted to his companion idiot to call the police. The cops in Indiana seem to have been trained in dealing with these morons. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/89 "2015-08-02T16:01:18Z")
**Smeghead** : I cannot thank you enough for that link. It’s entertainment of the highest caliber, and I’m saying that while still watching the second video roll. The idiot, obviously one of those “Article 4” jackasses, gets the document he’s relying on wrong. He tells the cop “Article 1, Section 4, United States Constitution”. The cop was not fazed at all by a reference to how senators and representatives are elected and when they must meet. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/90 "2015-08-02T17:55:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Any stories about it really aren’t that interesting. A prisoner refuses to come out of his cell, you go in and carry him out. A prisoner refuse to take off his clothes for a strip search, you take off his clothes. A prisoner refuses to take showers, you hose him down. Oh, of course. I did case management in a half-way house and saw that kind of thing. I was hoping for something more elaborately political, along the lines of these sovereign citizen morons. Passive resistance by itself, without the accompanying political theater, isn’t that interesting. I’m still curious (though I can probably imagine) how a SC deals with losing, and with the fact that on parole (and probably probation) they have to explicitly agree to allow the relevant officers to have authority over them. Hard to make an argument based on contract law when you _signed a frigging contract!_ (“But I signed my corporate name! It’s in blue ink so it doesn’t count!”) ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/91 "2015-08-02T19:54:46Z")
If there’s a gold fringe anywhere in the [DEL]room[/DEL] [DEL]courthouse[/DEL] [DEL]city[/DEL] [DEL]county[/DEL] [DEL]state[/DEL] [DEL]country[/DEL] [DEL]world[/DEL] universe, they’re home free. Didn’t they teach you _anything_ in school? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/92 "2015-08-02T20:01:38Z")
Is there any way to find out what happened to the girl from the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/93 "2015-08-02T20:05:14Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > I seem to recall reading some of them (claim to) set up their own courts. I imagine these tend to be a lot like the tribunal from _The Dark Knight Rises_. [They’ve set up their own Congress and President.](http://www.republicoftheunitedstates.org/) [Quatloos has a wonderful, if not long,](http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8895&start=720) thread on this little bit of insanity along with many others. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/94 "2015-08-02T20:12:59Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Has anyone interviewed one of these people after they end up in prison? I’d really love to see what all the cognitive dissonance does, especially when they realize that getting out on parole requires that they actually _acknowledge_ and _agree to_ the parole officers’ having authority over them (versus merely passively acquiescing to that authority while in prison)! From what I’ve read over in the [Quatloos forums](http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewforum.php?f=37) (I’m not visiting the insane groups where these nutters hang out), most of the time they’re just convinced they didn’t get the magic words quite right, and when they file their appeal they’ll show that judge! Very, very few seem to get turned around and realize they’ve been fed a pack of lies. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/95 "2015-08-03T08:44:16Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Best part of the video is when the cop starts rationally debating her. Just once I’d like to see a cop out-Sovereign one of these guys. “You can’t arrest me! I’m an Article 4 free inhabitant by the Articles of Confederation!” “On the contrary. By clause 73 of the Magna Carta, any officer under employ of the Sheriff of the Land may search any waggon operating on a public carriageway, and detain the operators of such vehicle until a writ of conveyance can be obtained from the constabulatory. If said writ is not obtained within a fortnight, then…” “Aaaaaaah!” \ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/96 "2015-08-03T10:13:26Z")
“You can’t arrest me! I’m an Article 4 free inhabitant, Articles of Confederation!” “Hey, me TOO! Good luck filing suit against me, cousin!” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/97 "2015-08-05T05:36:19Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Just once I’d like to see a cop out-Sovereign one of these guys. > > “You can’t arrest me! I’m an Article 4 free inhabitant by the Articles of Confederation!” > > “On the contrary. By clause 73 of the Magna Carta, any officer under employ of the Sheriff of the Land may search any waggon operating on a public carriageway, and detain the operators of such vehicle until a writ of conveyance can be obtained from the constabulatory. If said writ is not obtained within a fortnight, then…” > > “Aaaaaaah!” \ Wouldn’t work. Section 30 > [@](#): > > No sheriff, royal official, or other person shall take horses or carts for transport from any free man, without his consent. In fact, I may post this on some SC websites and see what traction it gets. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/98 "2015-08-05T06:31:08Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Wouldn’t work. Section 30 It looks to me like Section 30 would apply to officials commandeering a vehicle for their own use, rather than searching it. So, under the Magna Carta, the sheriff couldn’t flash a badge and demand that you turn over your car so he could pursue a fleeing suspect, but searching it seems to be allowed under Clause 73. However, according to a certain well-regarded [sourse](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2247/can-cops-really-commandeer-cars), the First Statute of Westminster [1275] (well after the signing of the Magna Carta) required wealthy subjects to keep weapons, armor, and a horse for use in case they were summoned by the sheriffs to assist in “keeping the peace”, including “to sue and arrest felons”. So, the sheriff theoretically couldn’t order you to turn over your horse…but he could order you to chase the suspect yourself. Not, of course, that any of that would keep the loons from willfully misinterpreting it to mean whatever is convenient for them at the time. It would make for a funny argument, though. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/99 "2015-08-05T13:12:32Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > Very, very few seem to get turned around and realize they’ve been fed a pack of lies. Well, I suspect MOST of them do. You just don’t hear about them because they’re just normal people now and probably embarrassed to admit having been suckered in. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/100 "2015-08-07T09:11:55Z")
Ok I’m going to stand up for the girl. She might be jibber jabbering about nonsense, BUT in the vid you can see she wasn’t the driver the driver is already outside and cuffed. So why does the cop request a DL from a passenger? Without knowing the full story any other comment is hard to make. But again she wasn’t the driver. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478.md?page=6)