# More Star Wars - why was Luke Red 5
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [June 11, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910 "2018-06-11T20:44:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/21 "2018-06-12T14:01:37Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#):
>
> There was also a deleted scene where Red Leader claims to have met his father once (one wonders if that was before or after his father murdered a bunch of children and put on the black suit–probably before. Maybe).
>
> The question I always had was why was Luke given _command_ of that final trench run. It’s not just that everybody they had left made that attack–Red Leader explicitly puts Luke in charge. Wedge even starts calling him “Boss.” Really? The new guy?
>
> The only logical explanation is that Luke’s ability to bulls-eye womp rats is just _that impressive_.
Actually, the Red leader puts Luke in charge of guarding the trench while he makes an unsuccessful run at the exhaust port. Shortly after that (“negative, negative…it didn’t go in…”) he loses his starboard engine. Because of this, he tells Luke to “get set up for your attack run…” So, he had Luke make the run for two possible reasons: 1. Red Leader’s ship was damaged, and 2. He used up his proton torpedoes in the previous run, so another attempt was pointless. Then, of course, Vader shoots Red Leader down, and Luke, Biggs & Wedge are the only ones left.
Scene starts at 7:40
[Death Star Trench Run](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WBG2rJZGW8)
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### Author:  [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/22 "2018-06-12T14:11:08Z")
> [@tracer](#):
>
> In the novelization of the 1977 movie (officially written by Goerge Lucas, but most likely ghost-written by Alan Dean Foster), the X-wing fighters are **blue** squadron, not red squadron. Luke’s call sign is Blue Five.
>
> The most likely reason: It was originally going to be Blue Five, but the special effects shots were done against blue screens, and with blue decals on their wings it was impossible to film the X-wing fighters in such a way that you didn’t see the background (stars, death star surface, etc.) showing through the decals. So, they had to change it to another color, and they chose red.
I believe that you are on the nose there. They also had R2-D2 with black trim instead of blue for the scenes where he is plugged in the back of the X-Wing. They went to green screen for Empire and Return of the Jedi and were able to make R2 blue again.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/23 "2018-06-12T14:18:13Z")
_The Last Jedi_ makes it clear that there are amoral arms dealers who will happily sell ships both to the Alliance and to the Empire.
> [@](#):
>
> Quoth **RickJay** :
>
> Somewhat accidentally, the fact the Empire uses the TIE fighter and the Rebels use the much bigger, heavier, hyperspace-capable X-Wing kinda makes sense
The other key difference is that X-Wings have shields, while TIE fighters don’t. If a TIE gets hit, the pilot’s dead, and the Empire doesn’t give a damn. But the Alliance values the lives of their people, and so invest more in preserving them.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/24 "2018-06-12T14:37:24Z")
TIE fighters are much better at evading fire, though. They’re meant to be quick little things that you can’t hit at all. As a design concept it makes a lot of sense, like attacking someone with a swarm of bees.
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### Author:  [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/25 "2018-06-12T14:45:51Z")
> [@SykoSkotty](#):
>
> Actually, the Red leader puts Luke in charge of guarding the trench while he makes an unsuccessful run at the exhaust port. Shortly after that (“negative, negative…it didn’t go in…”) he loses his starboard engine. Because of this, he tells Luke to “get set up for your attack run…” So, he had Luke make the run for two possible reasons: 1. Red Leader’s ship was damaged, and 2. He used up his proton torpedoes in the previous run, so another attempt was pointless. Then, of course, Vader shoots Red Leader down, and Luke, Biggs & Wedge are the only ones left.
Sure, but he directs that order specifically at Luke: “Luke, take Reds Two and Three [that’s Wedge and Biggs]. Hold up here and wait for my signal to start your run.”
He’s putting Luke in charge of that little group. When it comes to the actual attack, Luke is in the lead, the other two are his wingmen. Why not put Biggs or Wedge, both of whom had more experience, in the lead position? Surely that would be more natural?\*
Red Leader was probably kind of star-struck from having met Anakin that one time. 🙂
\*Actually, the most experienced is probably Wedge. Remember that Biggs himself is still relatively new to the Rebellion, having only jumped ship right around the beginning of the movie.
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### Author:  [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/26 "2018-06-12T15:41:14Z")
Thanks for the explanation on why Luke was Red 5 - they assigned him the open Red 5 slot with a spare X-wing they had.
As for why they let Luke fly at all, obviously it’s because they are hurting for pilots. I mean, they have a spare X-wing and an open call slot. Yeah, someone died to make the open slot, but they have a spare X-wing. And they only send 30 small ships on that run. Yeah, I can see giving Luke a ship based on Leia and Biggs vouching for him.
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> When they do they roll call, why don’t they do it in order? Shouldn’t they go “Red One Standing by”. Red Two, standing by." "red three, sta… you get the idea. Easier to check them off if they broadcast in order. Is someone back at rebel base keeping a checklist?
I also wondered about that.
> [@MrAtoz](#):
>
> The question I always had was why was Luke given _command_ of that final trench run. It’s not just that everybody they had left made that attack–Red Leader explicitly puts Luke in charge. Wedge even starts calling him “Boss.” Really? The new guy?
>
> The only logical explanation is that Luke’s ability to bulls-eye womp rats is just _that impressive_.
> [@SykoSkotty](#):
>
> Actually, the Red leader puts Luke in charge of guarding the trench while he makes an unsuccessful run at the exhaust port. Shortly after that (“negative, negative…it didn’t go in…”) he loses his starboard engine. Because of this, he tells Luke to “get set up for your attack run…” So, he had Luke make the run for two possible reasons: 1. Red Leader’s ship was damaged, and 2. He used up his proton torpedoes in the previous run, so another attempt was pointless. Then, of course, Vader shoots Red Leader down, and Luke, Biggs & Wedge are the only ones left.
>
> Scene starts at 7:40
>
> [Death Star Trench Run](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WBG2rJZGW8)
Yes, that’s my question. Why assign Luke command of the final run? Did the others already expend their proton torpedoes? I didn’t trace the battle closely enough to check.
There’s also something fatalistic about their defense strategy against the TIE fighters. They basically form a trio and let the two back X-wings get shot to keep the TIE fighters from shooting the one making the run. It’s not like the X-wing guns point backwards. Shouldn’t the ones covering him try some maneuvers to actually shoot at the attacking ships?
As for Luke being the newest pilot, he literally showed up 15 minutes before the briefing. He’s the only pilot in the room wearing civvies - the rest are in pilot gear.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/27 "2018-06-12T15:53:26Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#):
>
> The only logical explanation is that Luke’s ability to bulls-eye womp rats is just _that impressive_.
My theory is that it actually IS.
Luke has been subconsciously using the Force all his life. He never realizes that’s how he does things. It actually is damn near impossible to “bulls eye womp rats”, but Like has no basis for comparison. He does it, therefore it can’t be that hard.
Like Annikin in TPM, he just is a “lucky” pilot, but luck’s got nothing to do with it.
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### Author:  [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/28 "2018-06-12T18:13:00Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#):
>
> Sure, but he directs that order specifically at Luke: “Luke, take Reds Two and Three [that’s Wedge and Biggs]. Hold up here and wait for my signal to start your run.”
>
> He’s putting Luke in charge of that little group. When it comes to the actual attack, Luke is in the lead, the other two are his wingmen. Why not put Biggs or Wedge, both of whom had more experience, in the lead position? Surely that would be more natural?\*
>
> Red Leader was probably kind of star-struck from having met Anakin that one time. 🙂
>
> \*Actually, the most experienced is probably Wedge. Remember that Biggs himself is still relatively new to the Rebellion, having only jumped ship right around the beginning of the movie.
But “leader” in this case seems to be “person who’s taking the shot.” So if Luke was considered to be the most accurate.
Possibly some sort of simulator run offscreen could be fanwanked, but even if not, Luke believed he could make the shot, Wedge said in the briefing that he believed it was an impossible shot, and presumably Biggs knew Luke was a better shot.
So at that point, Luke’s the bomber, and Wedge and Biggs are escorts.
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### Author:  [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/29 "2018-06-12T21:32:34Z")
I wonder also at what point did Luke consider the X-wing “his”. It belonged to the rebellion and he was it’s pilot but suddenly he takes off with the thing after evacuating Hoth.
The Rebel leaders never asked “hey, where is Skywalker going with our ship?” or considered him awol.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/30 "2018-06-12T21:40:38Z")
He’s the only Jedi they have - I think he can commandeer an X-Wing if he wants to.
According to what I remember from the EU, you had to be careful about keeping the same astromech droid paired with an X-Wing, because they would synch so closely that the fighter wouldn’t work with any other droid. Given Luke’s attachment to R2D2, he probably left him plugged in so long that the fighter was useless to the Rebellion.
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### Author:  [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/31 "2018-06-12T21:44:32Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#):
>
> I know nothing about Star Wars, but for what it’s worth (if anything), Red 5 has a _motor racing_ significance:
>
> [Nigel Mansell - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Mansell#%22Red_5%22)
>
> j
If anything, Mansell took his red 5 from star wars. Since Star Wars came out in 1977 and Mansell didn’t start the red 5 thing until the 80’s.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2018, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/32 "2018-06-13T08:00:52Z")
> [@Hampshire](#):
>
> I wonder also at what point did Luke consider the X-wing “his”. It belonged to the rebellion and he was it’s pilot but suddenly he takes off with the thing after evacuating Hoth.
He’d completely earned the use of it it by that point, I’d say.
> [@](#):
>
> The Rebel leaders never asked “hey, where is Skywalker going with our ship?” or considered him awol.
“The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded”
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2018, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/33 "2018-06-13T09:45:50Z")
> [@Hampshire](#):
>
> I wonder also at what point did Luke consider the X-wing “his”. It belonged to the rebellion and he was it’s pilot but suddenly he takes off with the thing after evacuating Hoth.
> The Rebel leaders never asked “hey, where is Skywalker going with our ship?” or considered him awol.
Who said he didn’t have permission to go?
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### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2018, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/34 "2018-06-13T11:26:14Z")
Luke was a Commander by the time of _Empire Strikes Back_, so he had a lot of permission to do as he pleased with his X-Wing.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/35 "2018-06-13T14:28:35Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#):
>
> Each X-Wing was [marked with red stripes](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/29/a7/fe/29a7fefbb5ef98ace17bca2870f15550.jpg) on the S-Foils (wings). They numbered from [one up to twelve](http://forum.rebelscum.com/photogallery/data/500/Rogue_Squad1.jpg) of them. Luke’s [had five](https://modelingmadness.com/review/misc/scifi/lee48xg.jpg).
I never knew that! in 41 years, I never knew that! How did that slip by?
And it isn’t just me. I told that to my coworker, who is the biggest SW fan I know in real life, and he didn’t know it, either.
Good think I only built one X-wing model kit. Having two Red 5’s in my mini-fleet would have made me look a fool.
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### Author:  [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/36 "2018-06-13T20:54:52Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#):
>
> If anything, Mansell took his red 5 from star wars. Since Star Wars came out in 1977 and Mansell didn’t start the red 5 thing until the 80’s.
Now, y’see, I did say I know nothing about Star Wars. I assumed the question originated in the latest movie. (OK, almost nothing - I do know there has been something recent).
Intriguing. Thank you.
j
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### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2018, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/37 "2018-06-14T03:14:37Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> I never knew that! in 41 years, I never knew that! How did that slip by?
It’s too dark to see it on-screen, it’s only really clear in model kits. And in fact, it’s possible it isn’t on screen and was a retro-fix, just like how [every pilot has different patterns](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/43/47/ab/4347abc9b9f09c9c310309abc650d2fc.jpg) on their helmets but the most commonly seen one, on Luke’s, became the symbol for the Rebel Alliance ever afterward.
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### Author:  [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/38 "2018-06-14T04:58:56Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#):
>
> There was also a deleted scene where Red Leader claims to have met his father once (one wonders if that was before or after his father murdered a bunch of children and put on the black suit–probably before. Maybe).
Nepotism. Here’s the scene with the “I met your father, once.” The actual explanation being Darth Vader wasn’t his father yet, of course.
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f00IkrWvur4&t=8m)
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#):
>
> I believe that you are on the nose there. They also had R2-D2 with black trim instead of blue for the scenes where he is plugged in the back of the X-Wing. They went to green screen for Empire and Return of the Jedi and were able to make R2 blue again.
No, they still used blue screen for Empire and Jedi.
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### Author:  [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/39 "2018-06-14T23:55:50Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#):
>
> I believe that you are on the nose there. They also had R2-D2 with black trim instead of blue for the scenes where he is plugged in the back of the X-Wing. They went to green screen for Empire and Return of the Jedi and were able to make R2 blue again.
I just watched the movie and I noticed R2D2 looked black in the X-wing battle this time.
> [@caligulathegod](#):
>
> Nepotism. Here’s the scene with the “I met your father, once.” The actual explanation being Darth Vader wasn’t his father yet, of course.
>
> [https://youtu.be/f00IkrWvur4?t=8m](https://youtu.be/f00IkrWvur4?t=8m)
That link has other clips before that one. I’m glad they dropped the Gilligan hat.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-star-wars-why-was-luke-red-5/815910/40 "2018-06-15T00:02:01Z")
Several other helmets have the same symbol as Luke’s. My guess would be that the default helmet carries the Alliance insignia, but that it’s the fashion for some pilots to paint over it with their own designs (sort of like nose art, in our world). Luke, of course, hasn’t had the chance to yet.
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