# More Sterling Performance From The TSA **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 2, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258 "2011-03-02T20:06:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/41 "2011-03-05T22:45:50Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > Rather than scanners that work visually, we should focus on developing and implementing [electronic sniffing machines](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosives_trace-detection_portal_machine) that detect traces of explosives, as well as illegal drugs. Why drugs? If you were to travel by car the cops would have to have a reason to pull you over to search you and a warrant to search your car. What makes travel by plane an opportunity for them to start violating your rights? Why not scanners at random places on the sidewalk for that matter? You okay with that? A person with drugs on them is safety neutral to my well being as a fellow passenger. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/42 "2011-03-05T22:49:30Z")
> [@BunnyTVS](#): > > No bacon - No pass The bacon requirement keeps away Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist and Jain religious fanatics. Baptists are still a problem. > [@Projammer](#): > > What’s going to happen when someone boards with a bit of C4 or Semtex surgically implanted in their abdomen? Laproscopically, it would be a minor procedure. Sorry ma’am. You’ve been randomly selected for exploratory surgery. Can you take out my gallbladder while you’re in there? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/43 "2011-03-05T22:50:14Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Believe it or not, sometimes the English language has more than one word for the same concept. > > [Debark](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/debark). It’s true what they say. Sometimes debark is worse than the bite. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/44 "2011-03-06T00:56:48Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > That leaves us with explosives to worry about. Rather than scanners that work visually, we should focus on developing and implementing [electronic sniffing machines](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosives_trace-detection_portal_machine) that detect traces of explosives, as well as illegal drugs. Like these hot selling items > **[ADE 651](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651)** > > The ADE 651 is a fraudulent bomb detector produced by the British company Advanced Tactical Security & Communications Ltd (ATSC). It was claimed to detect many substances, such as drugs or explosives, from long distances. The device was sold to various countries, particularly in Iraq where the government was claimed to have spent £52 million for security operations. The product was invented by Jim McCormick, ATSC's managing director and a former Merseyside policeman. > The device features a swi... :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/45 "2011-03-06T01:21:10Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I would love to have some sort of damned card so I can avoid the whole mess. Posting from a mobile device so it’s a PITA to link, but there is indeed a process by which you can do exactly that. We looked at it because we travel a ton, both domestically & internationally, but the lower age limit or the program is 16 and our kids are 9 & 11, so we’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/46 "2011-03-06T02:42:42Z")
The program you’re talking about is [Nexus](http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/nexus/menu-eng.html) It only works for Can/US right now but that’s enough for me! Hubby and I are starting the process. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/47 "2011-03-06T03:46:43Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > The program you’re talking about is [Nexus](http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/nexus/menu-eng.html) It only works for Can/US right now but that’s enough for me! Hubby and I are starting the process. Doesn’t the Nexus card just make crossing the US-Canada border faster and easier? I don’t think it allows one to avoid the TSA screening, as I believe **aruvqan** means. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/48 "2011-03-06T04:08:13Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Why drugs? If you were to travel by car the cops would have to have a reason to pull you over to search you and a warrant to search your car. What makes travel by plane an opportunity for them to start violating your rights? Why not scanners at random places on the sidewalk for that matter? You okay with that? A person with drugs on them is safety neutral to my well being as a fellow passenger. They already check for drugs, especially if you’re traveling internationally. Same deal with transporting large sums of cash. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/49 "2011-03-06T04:33:51Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Doesn’t the Nexus card just make crossing the US-Canada border faster and easier? I don’t think it allows one to avoid the TSA screening, as I believe **aruvqan** means. I thought there was also separate TSA lines and part of the value of the upfront security checks and interviews was faster clearance on each trip. Aha! [Found it](http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/nexus/notice-avis-eng.html) > [@](#): > > As of April 12th 2010, NEXUS members may use a new “NEXUS Priority Lane” for pre-boarding security screening for domestic and some international flights (excluding flights to the United States) at the Macdonald-Cartier International Airport located in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada and at Terminal 1 at the Pearson International Airport in Toronto, Ontario, Canada and for domestic flights at Pierre Elliott Trudeau Airport in Montréal, Quebec, Canada. > > The priority security screening lane is part of a pilot project implemented by the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority (CATSA) in partnership with Transport Canada and the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA). > > To benefit from this service, present your valid NEXUS membership card and boarding pass to the security screening officer at the designated screening checkpoint. If you do not have your membership card with you, you must use the regular screening lanes. Lanes will be clearly identified. > > All passengers, including those accessing the NEXUS Priority Lane, are required to comply with CATSA screening requirements. > > In the future, the CBSA and CATSA will consider additional airports and trusted traveller programs for the priority lanes. For further information on this pilot project and for information on any changes to the pilot, please visit the CBSA and CATSA Web sites through the links at the end of this message. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/50 "2011-03-06T16:19:34Z")
When my unit came back from Iraq, we stopped briefly at Baltimore International Airport, which at the time closed up at some ludicrous early hour. We left our weapons behind on the plane----M16s, .249s, sidearms, you name it. That was the most heavily armed plane in the world at the moment. A colonel on board demonstrated leadership by ordering a bunch of light colonels to guard the weapons and let the lower ranks off the plane. We got to wander around for about a half an hour, then headed back to the plane. The TSA made us take off our boots, our belts, and our overblouses. Why? Because there were Al Qaeda agents lurking in Baltmore amongst the cleaning staff, on the off chance that he’d be able to turn a soldier to the other side in a half an hour. Or maybe they were terrified we’d picked up…nail clippers…or something else fearsome to take back to that plane full of guns. Judging by the smirk on the lead asshole’s face, I kind of doubt it. And that was before I got through and saw them trying to pull aside the only black member in the company—a citizen of more than thirty years’ standing, a member of the military for nearly as long. Yeah. So, what exactly are the TSA providing us with? It’s the passengers doing all the terrorist catching. Why don’t we just have the fucking TSA screen the luggage and hand out free champagne in line to the passengers? Get everybody nice and relaxed and if somebody tries something, the passengers can use the booze bottles to subdue him. But, seriously, have they ever caught \anybody?\ ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/51 "2011-03-07T00:05:41Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > I thought there was also separate TSA lines and part of the value of the upfront security checks and interviews was faster clearance on each trip. > Aha! [Found it](http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/nexus/notice-avis-eng.html) Thanks for the info–if it does speed up the security lines, and ever spreads to western Canada, I may look into it. I fly between Toronto and Calgary often enough to make it worth it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/52 "2011-03-07T02:26:29Z")
The problem is we give authority over us to people who are not trained well, not qualified and not psychologically screened. You should expect bad results on a regular basis. When you start an agency, you stress qualifications and training. Then you get bored and put it on automatic pilot when nothing bad happens. Then the training and quality deteriorate. Thats where the TSA is now. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/53 "2011-03-07T13:29:33Z")
> [@](#): > > TSA hit by new scandal as passenger boards plane with THREE boxcutters > > A passenger boarded an international flight from New York with three boxcutters in his hand luggage after TSA workers at JFK airport failed to spot the blades. > > He walked straight through supposedly ramped-up security with the cutters, which were used as weapons by the 9/11 hijackers. > > They were only discovered when they fell out of the passenger’s bag as he put his hand luggage into an overhead locker on the Dominican Republic-bound flight, sparking a terror alert. The plane was evacuated… I thought you had updated all cabin doors to be re-inforced now? Seriously, what harm to the plane can one guy with boxcutters do? If the tries to get a hostage, the whole plane will jump him, even without air marshals. Similar for guns. If the smuggler were an assassin (unlikely, given how he was found) that wants to kill one specific passenger (although on the ground in the airport would be much smarter), then a laptop cable or power brick or any other allowed item can be used as murder weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Khaki\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Khaki\_Campbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khaki_Campbell)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/54 "2011-03-07T14:49:07Z")
So suddenly, the whole plane would “jump” a highjacker, even if he’s threatening to (say) slash the throat of a baby or infant ? Seeing how many people are too timid to act on the ground (bystander effect)… ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/55 "2011-03-07T15:08:52Z")
> [@Khaki\_Campbell](#): > > So suddenly, the whole plane would “jump” a highjacker, even if he’s threatening to (say) slash the throat of a baby or infant ? Seeing how many people are too timid to act on the ground (bystander effect)… A whole plane did jump the hijackers: the fourth plane on 9/11. They heard on their mobiles what happened to three others and knew that keeping still was no longer an option. And that’s what different to the situation on the ground: bystander effect means that everybody passes the responsibility to somebody else, because it’s a stranger being hurt. In a hijacked airplane after 9/11, everybody knows they will die, and they personally will have to act. There have been several news reports of false alarms on planes - passengers mistaking something or somebody for terrorists - and other passengers immediatly jumping the suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/56 "2011-03-08T02:43:49Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > I thought you had updated all cabin doors to be re-inforced now? Seriously, what harm to the plane can one guy with boxcutters do? If the tries to get a hostage, the whole plane will jump him, even without air marshals. Similar for guns. That’s true, and one of the reasons I try to avoid flying is that most of what TSA does is security theater, intended to show that they’re doing **something** , regardless of whether it’s anything that actually increases security. But still, given the enormous amount of money spent, and the enormous amount of inconvenience their strictures cause, couldn’t they at least find the sort of weapon used in the last hijacking? If they can’t even find box cutters, why bother having any searches at all? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/57 "2011-03-09T17:04:58Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Why drugs? If you were to travel by car the cops would have to have a reason to pull you over to search you and a warrant to search your car. What makes travel by plane an opportunity for them to start violating your rights? Why not scanners at random places on the sidewalk for that matter? You okay with that? A person with drugs on them is safety neutral to my well being as a fellow passenger. First of all, dude, you’re barking up the wrong tree. I would be perfectly happy if they stopped screening for drugs, especially on flights between the U.S. and Canada. However, since they **already do** look for drugs, the fact that this machine can detect them is a selling point. I think the machines will do a better job of detecting explosives than the current measures in place. The fact that they **can** be programmed to detect illegal drugs means that they **will** be programmed to detect illegal drugs, regardless of what you, I, or NORML have to say about it. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/58 "2011-03-09T17:13:08Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > First of all, dude, you’re barking up the wrong tree. My comment came from not reading the OP again before I posted. I forgot that it had mentioned drugs. But, yeah. I wonder why we think it is okay to give up our rights because of the situation we find ourselves in. What makes airports special? Frankly, I think all the border guards should be able to do is look at my passport and, assuming I am a citizen, wave me on my way, no different than any other type of cop. They can butt search foreigners all they want, afaic (and I’d expect similar treatment traveling to another country). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/59 "2011-03-09T17:28:33Z")
> [@Khaki\_Campbell](#): > > So suddenly, the whole plane would “jump” a highjacker, even if he’s threatening to (say) slash the throat of a baby or infant ? Seeing how many people are too timid to act on the ground (bystander effect)… The dynamics are fundamentally different. On a plane, you simply don’t have the option of not getting involved – you already **are** involved. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/60 "2011-03-09T20:53:23Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > I wish it were as quick and easy as you describe, and I guess it can be sometimes. Last time I flew it took over 8 hours to get from New York to DC, airport to airport with not a word of explanation for the airline. Drive time, door-to-door, is something like 5 hours. I struggle to explain this to my overlords. I like to drive. I do. I live in NYC. I fly all the time. Boston gig? I’m in the car, baby. D.C. gig? They want me to fly, I push them so I can fly. Atlanta gig? I’d rather fly because the drive is a killer. Detroit? Toss-up. Toronto? Toss-up, though flying is rough because it’s International. I hate flying. My god I hate flying. I use a CPAP machine. There are plenty of times when two different TSA “officers” ( and yeah, I use that term in quotes. Gimmeafuckin’break. Officers. Epaulets do not an officer make !! ) have been working on my stuff. The video of the 5 year old boy being wanded and patted down by a TSA “officer” is just pathetic. How about if we put HIS 5 year old through that shit? Cartooniverse [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258.md?page=4)