# More Sterling Performance From The TSA **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 2, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258 "2011-03-02T20:06:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/101 "2012-08-09T13:03:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah, they have pretty much poisoned that well, haven’t they? Well, I managed to back them down. It can be done. At least with kids. TSA GUY: Sir, your daughter (5-year=old wearing a tight T-shirt and little shorts and sandals; the only way she could be hiding something is if she was a Terminator-style robot) has bene chosen for extra pat down screening blah blah blah… ME: No. TSA GUY: Excuse me? ME: No. TSA GUY: Sir, your daughter has to… ME: No. It’s not happening. Absolutely not. TSA GUY: Uh… alright, I guess we don’t have to. There was no way, no how, they were looking under my little girl’s clothes. I would have gone to jail first. Afterwards I was kind of shaken up, as I am not a screw-with-authority kind of person at all, but in the moment the parent side of me wasn’t budging. I mean, seriously. Can nobody see that a little bit of BRAINS will be vastly more effective than the imbecilic approach they have no? Does no one notice how few problems Israel has with this sort of thing despite being the world’s terrorist magnet / punching bag? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/102 "2012-08-09T16:51:26Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > …you’ll probably find all the people who’ve been accosted by the TSA in the past. Or who are terrified by the thought of actually getting off hte ground in a plane and _flying_ I know a few people who need to be tranked off their ass to get on a plane. Good luck profiling them. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/103 "2012-08-09T22:14:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > …Now, I’m sure that there are plenty of international terrorists-for-hire who are capable of Bond-villain levels of coolness and competence before and during hijacking. Fortunately, the vast majority of them only exist in movies and TV. The real ones are vanishingly rare, and no organization would waste them on a suicide mission. Most terrorists are semi-trained scum, and semi-trained scum are easy to spot. So, if I’m just like The Most Interesting Man In The World, even when I’m in the process of committing a crime, does that mean I have a marketable skill? Sweeeet… Watch for my _“Cool Under Pressure, Diverse Skillset”_ ad on Craigslist. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/104 "2012-08-09T22:42:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Humans may or may not be good at detecting deception, but we’re very good at sensing danger and “smelling” fear - cops, Secret Service agents and bullies do it all the time. If you teach agents what to look for, and trust their instincts, you’ll get much better results than having them work like automatons. At the very least I’m sure those people think they’re very good at it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/105 "2012-08-10T09:31:33Z")
This is like the healthcare debate all over again. The system you have sucks, but because the alternative isn’t utterly flawless, you won’t even consider it. Sure, actually providing your screeners with training and then allowing them to use their brains and judgment isn’t 100% effective, I’ll grant you that. But at least it isn’t 100% ineffective like random pat-downs and other elements of security theater. So what do you prefer? ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/106 "2012-08-10T16:10:20Z")
We already have plenty of Joe Six Pack and Soccer Mom types profiling any Muslim-ish looking person who gets on a plane, let alone if they sit together, speak in a different language, use the bathroom, etc. Might as well let the pros have a crack at it. At least then it’s done before everyone is on the plane and you don’t end up with an emergency landing and royally fucking up someone’s day because he looked suspicious. That shit happens because everyone knows the TSA is a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Snite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Snite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snite)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/107 "2012-08-11T01:01:55Z")
Pretending that no profiling is taking place: Is it the system that’s flawed, or the execution? At $29K a year, the TSA can’t exactly hire only quality employees. People who are quality employees tend to be unwilling to put up with a bs job at low pay unless they are in transition between jobs, or are one of the few among the masses in the industry who have their eye on the prize of a senior management position. The latter being a needle in the haystack in the security industry in general. This leaves the execution of security up to people I am loathe to call professionals or to trust to do the right thing for any reason beyond it’s convenience to them. This causes friction with the rest of the world and everyone thinking “This is really really really stupid.” Sure, the TSA could enace stricter hiring and retention rules to weed out the unnecessary weight, but at $29K a year, it just means their officer numbers will plummet and render them unable to execute the job. Stricter rules require a higher pay scale, and right now, I doubt that kind of reform is enroute. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/108 "2012-08-11T18:55:41Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > “Profiling” does not mean only - or even primarily - ethnic profiling. It’s also psychological profiling. People who are about to hijack a plane are almost always tense and nervous, and if you train your agents to spot tense and nervous people, and then have them look for suspicious behavior and cross-reference with age, appearance and yes, ethnic data, you can get pretty good results. > > Now, I’m sure that there are plenty of international terrorists-for-hire who are capable of Bond-villain levels of coolness and competence before and during hijacking. Fortunately, the vast majority of them only exist in movies and TV. The real ones are vanishingly rare, and no organization would waste them on a suicide mission. Most terrorists are semi-trained scum, and semi-trained scum are easy to spot. > [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Is there any evidence actually backing this up? Humans are generally pretty crappy at detecting deception, so I’d be genuinely interested to see the pretty good results. > [@Alessan](#): > > Humans may or may not be good at detecting deception, but we’re very good at sensing danger and “smelling” fear - cops, Secret Service agents and bullies do it all the time. If you teach agents what to look for, and trust their instincts, you’ll get much better results than having them work like automatons. > > The TSA is currently designed in such a manner so as to prevent agents from ever using their brains. Seems to me that’s kind of defeating the purpose. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Actually I would say the problem is that people can get tense and nervous for any number of reasons and people can act confident even if they are planning something. I’ve learned that in many places, no one will stop you if you act like you’re supposed to be there, even when there is evidence you’re not supposed to be there (like no badge). > > So the profile Alessan talks about may catch the guy trying to sneak 4 oz of hair product on board but probably won’t catch the person trying to go out with a bang and a “Allahu Akbar!” or “Erin Go Bragh!” > [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > At the very least I’m sure those people think they’re very good at it. Profiling DOES in fact work, and many people ARE in fact good at it. > [@](#): > > The driver was fidgeting, jittery, sweating. His hands disappeared from sight as he began rummaging around the car’s console. That made Dean nervous. > **[The Seattle Times | Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment,...](https://www.seattletimes.com)** > > Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment, travel, restaurants and opinion for Seattle and the Pacific Northwest. In addition, while a few people can truly act unconcerned when they are planning something, it’s fairly rare. Far more common is “burn syndrome,” something that Stratfor (among others) talks about. > [@](#): > > “Burn syndrome” is a powerful psychological phenomenon that affects everyone conducting a covert activity: It is the irrational fear that a person observing you knows exactly what you are up to. This fear often causes people to make unnatural, frequently unconscious, movements – making them appear more rather than less suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/109 "2012-08-11T20:07:30Z")
Am I the only frequent traveller who has been pretty lucky at airport security? I was a bit peeved when I had to wait five minutes for a pat down because I was wearing a loose pull-over. They could have asked me if I preferred to take it off. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/110 "2012-08-11T22:11:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But at least it isn’t 100% ineffective like random pat-downs and other elements of security theater. Okay then. Show me the numbers that demonstrate that both of these assertions are true. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/111 "2012-08-12T01:00:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > (snip)I mean, seriously. Can nobody see that a little bit of BRAINS will be vastly more effective than the imbecilic approach they have no? Does no one notice how few problems Israel has with this sort of thing despite being the world’s terrorist magnet / punching bag? I’ve got as little patience with the TSA as anyone but I’m tired of this trope. If you think that the airline security needs of Israel, the size of New Jersey with three international and nine domestic airports all of which combined serve fewer people than the tenth busiest US airport have any similarity to those of the US you’re not paying attention. Can we just agree to forget about how Israel does it? It’s like you’re going to the Rustler Steakhouse and complaining they don’t do it like Peter Luger. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258/112 "2012-08-12T01:49:21Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Am I the only frequent traveller who has been pretty lucky at airport security? > > I was a bit peeved when I had to wait five minutes for a pat down because I was wearing a loose pull-over. They could have asked me if I preferred to take it off. Considering the huge amount of travel I do, I breeze through security, domestic and international, pretty well. Even when folks notice an irregularity with my passport or driver’s license, no one seems to be concerned about it once I explain. Most of my problems happened with the “old” (pre-Federalized) security. The new folks have been doing a decent job with me and respecting me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sterling-performance-from-the-tsa/573258.md?page=5)