# More Terminator films!.... Get....Out! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2007, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574 "2007-05-10T18:35:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/41 "2007-05-11T12:37:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Isn’t the robot one of Ray Harryhausen’s creations? I think it looks fine, with the stop-frame animation giving it a uniquely creepy movement. No, it’s by the underappreciated Ernest (“Ernie”) Farino, a much younger stop-animation and general effects guy who had the bad fortune to be born too late. He’s had very little exposure in big-name films and now CGI has taken over what used to be stop-motion’s turf. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/42 "2007-05-11T13:48:55Z")
[QUOTE=anamnesis] Or I just like to say nice things about films that make a quality effort. [/QUOTE] Fine, but this fails to explain your current position. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/43 "2007-05-11T13:52:00Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] No, it’s by the underappreciated Ernest (“Ernie”) Farino, a much younger stop-animation and general effects guy who had the bad fortune to be born too late. He’s had very little exposure in big-name films and now CGI has taken over what used to be stop-motion’s turf. [/QUOTE] Thanks Cal. I feel bad for crediting someone else for the work of an already under-appreciated animator… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/44 "2007-05-11T14:44:11Z")
They should have stopped after the first one, IMHO. (T2 sucked ass, I thought.) ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/45 "2007-05-11T17:08:13Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] (T2 sucked ass, I thought.) [/QUOTE] How do you figure? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/46 "2007-05-11T17:23:43Z")
Thing is, I went into T3 with pretty low expectations. Honestly, did any of you expect T3 to be a GOOD movie? I expected it to be a crappy attempt to cash in on the success of the first 2 movies, and it was a bit better than that. I agree that the actor playing John Connors just didn’t work. I understand they couldn’t get Ed Furlong due to his drug and alcohol problems, but couldn’t they at least have tried to get someone a little more wise-assed and streetwise? Sure, I’ll buy a John Connors drifting through life on his motorcycle, feeling sorry for himself, I thought that was an interesting development. But not THIS mope. As for T2, it’s held up pretty well, although the ground-breaking CGI work doesn’t look like anything much. I remember my jaw dropping when the T1000 broke open the helicopter windshield and flowed into the cockpit and reformed sitting down in the pilot’s seat. It’s still a good scene, but it just doesn’t carry the shock it once did. Compare the effects for the T1000 to the symbiont in Spiderman3. The symbiont oozing around looks cool, but it doesn’t inspire amazement. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/47 "2007-05-11T19:10:35Z")
I liked T1, and thought T2 was even better. T3 was a bit of a letdown; I agree that the John Connor role was miscast. Claire Danes was great, though. The best character arc of the entire movie was hers: her horror at what became of her fiancee, her resistance to what was being asked of her, and her growing self-confidence and ability to handle whatever was thrown at her. Overall, I’d say it was a pretty good movie, and it rounded out the trilogy well enough. YMMV, of course. I’m not opposed in principle to more T. movies. Hell, I have high hopes - probably destined to be dashed - for this next trilogy. It _could_ work. It _could_ carry the story forward in an exciting and consistent direction. It _could_ have kickass FX and action sequences. Please please please, Hollywood - do it right! And the very last scene of the very last T. movie, IMHO, should be Kyle Reese jumping into the time machine to go back to the 1980s… ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/48 "2007-05-11T19:22:27Z")
Uh-oh. Judging from this newly released trailer you guys might be in for some disappointment: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nOEI8LZrNE) ---
**Author:** ![anamnesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@anamnesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anamnesis)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/49 "2007-05-11T19:33:01Z")
I didn’t have very high expectations either, Lemur, given that it was no longer Cameron’s baby. I didn’t walk away impressed, but I think the film holds up well upon further viewing. I’m obviously in a minority to think Nick Stahl did well in the role, and conversely that Claire Danes was just an ancillary who went from one screaming or crying scene to the next. Had Cameron done the film, she’d have done a lot less screaming and crying. He’s big on strong, independent women who almost always end up taking control of a situation away from the “men in charge”. 😃 Regarding the effects, Cameron’s always had a penchant for raising the effects industry benchmark with the help of his studio partners. Part of his genius is that he knows exactly how a shot should look before they shoot a single frame of film, which is why he’s so obsessive during principal photography. He knows that when you try to fake everything with effects shots instead of traditional camera work, it might be entertaining, but it won’t be believable. T2’s effects hold up so well all these years later because in addition to being revolutionary, they were convincing because they weren’t overkill. The chase sequence in T3, or the bathroom brawl for example, were chock full of “hyper-real” CGI animation. Cool scenes and all, but you just know they weren’t as real as they could’ve been. The crane truck sequences were good homages to Cameron’s realism, but not paced the same way. Personally, I was most disappointed that the chase scene didn’t have a more intense soundtrack akin to Brad Fiedel’s score for T2. The sound mix of breaking glass and smashing cars seemed more important to them than actually scoring the scene. I guess they figured it would “add to the realism” a la The French Connection? I think it’d be nice if they got Fiedel back to write the score for some of these new movies. The T3 soundtrack was more wooden than any of the actors, IMO. As Cameron himself once said, the soul of a good action sequence really only comes together in post production sound editing and scoring anyway. ---
**Author:** ![T\_SQUARE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@T\_SQUARE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T_SQUARE)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/50 "2007-05-11T20:18:15Z")
I can’t understand how anyone can call T3 horrible with a straight face. I can accept, not as good as you’d hoped, or as good as it could have been, but there is no way it’s horrible. I remember watching the trailer for the first time. As soon as I saw the scene in the cemetery, where Arnold walks out of the chapel with the coffin over one shoulder and a cannon in the other hand, I knew the movie was going to be an awesome sight to behold. I get the feeling from some detractors that they think T3 is more of the same, to an increased degree. To me, this is a good thing. It’s everything I love about action movies… put on crack and Red Bull. Besides the aforementioned cemetery scene, which is the stuff of legend, there is the crane chase, the bathroom fight, and the helicopter crash. Oh, and the TX’s behind. Everything about the film is beautifully over the top. And this, Dopers, is why we go to the movies. As for T4, I will miss Arnold, as he brought a good chunk of the “over the topness” to the franchise. The man himself is over the top. I will be at the theatre on opening day to see for myself though. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/51 "2007-05-11T20:34:18Z")
To me, any movie where the best thing you can say about it is, “That blowed up real good!” isn’t really worth watching. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/52 "2007-05-11T21:27:21Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] How do you figure? [/QUOTE] Because the ending of the film was practically telegraphed from the moment you saw the trailer. Knowing Arnie was a good guy from the get-go (with constant reinforcement of that) ruined any emotional impact the scene where Sarah spots him in the hospital. Contrast this with _Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan_, where even though I’ve seen the film a zillion times, I’m _still_ stunned when Kirk looks over at Spock’s chair and has his “Oh, shit!” moment. Not once did I have anything like that when I saw T2 (and I’ve only seen it once), and had the script been written slightly differently, it could have been an emotionally tense film all the way through. Then, maybe, I wouldn’t have minded so much when I saw things like regenerating windshields in the semi. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2007, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/53 "2007-05-12T01:11:48Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Because the ending of the film was practically telegraphed from the moment you saw the trailer. [/quote] Huh. If you look at the movie as two halves: (1) Two terminators show up, one trying to kill John and one trying to save him. They tussle, chases and explosions ensue, and eventually the good one saves him and (2) Sarah, John and the good Terminator try to change history The first half is pretty telegraphed and obvious and foreordained, as it’s basically the first movie with Arnie’s role switched and better effects. But the second half is really where the movie comes into its own unique identity, and where the character arc of Sarah Connor completes its journey from innocent helpless woman to driven killer/leader/survivalist to strong but sane mother and true heroine. I really don’t see how the second half of the movie is telegraphed… particularly given that a lesser director making a sequel to T1 probably wouldn’t have included it. > [@](#): > > Knowing Arnie was a good guy from the get-go (with constant reinforcement of that) ruined any emotional impact the scene where Sarah spots him in the hospital. Except that SHE didn’t know it at the time. It might ruin the suspense of the scene in the mall where Arnie and Robert Patrick are closing in on John from both sides, but that’s just one short scene early in the film. > [@](#): > > Then, maybe, I wouldn’t have minded so much when I saw things like regenerating windshields in the semi. That seems like an awfully nitpicky complaint, particularly given how badass that whole scene is… If you’ve only seen it once, I highly recommend rewatching it, particularly the (imho) superior extended version. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2007, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/54 "2007-05-12T13:32:22Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] Huh. If you look at the movie as two halves: (1) Two terminators show up, one trying to kill John and one trying to save him. They tussle, chases and explosions ensue, and eventually the good one saves him and (2) Sarah, John and the good Terminator try to change history The first half is pretty telegraphed and obvious and foreordained, as it’s basically the first movie with Arnie’s role switched and better effects. [/quote] Just like _The Abyss_ was _2001: A Space Odyssey_ with a bigger cast and better effects. Frankly, I prefer _2001_, as it has a much better story. > [@](#): > > But the second half is really where the movie comes into its own unique identity, and where the character arc of Sarah Connor completes its journey from innocent helpless woman to driven killer/leader/survivalist to strong but sane mother and true heroine. I really don’t see how the second half of the movie is telegraphed… particularly given that a lesser director making a sequel to T1 probably wouldn’t have included it. I’m _not_ seeing how that’s any different than what happened to Sarah Connor during the first movie. She had some guy show up that she thought was a lunatic, telling her about being from the future and that a robot was out to kill her, and by the end of the film she’s killed the robot and is heading out into the wilderness with a kid in her belly, so that they can be ready for when Skynet takes over. > [@](#): > > Except that SHE didn’t know it at the time. It might ruin the suspense of the scene in the mall where Arnie and Robert Patrick are closing in on John from both sides, but that’s just one short scene early in the film. Yes, but I spent the entire scene of Linda Hamilton flopping around waiting for them to go through the whole “Oh, now she get’s it.” routine. Hamilton’s not a good enough actress for me to keep an interest in her performance under such circumstances. Especially when it’s been hammered into me time after time that Arnie’s now the good guy. > [@](#): > > That seems like an awfully nitpicky complaint, particularly given how badass that whole scene is… Ya know, I’d think that if the scene was that important to Cameron, he’d have gotten it _right_, and dude, I notice shit like that all the time in movies if they don’t have a strong story. I don’t catch them in flicks if they’ve got a strong story. And, dude, the windshields dropping out of the semi is _not_ minor, it’s pretty freakin’ obvious. Using beer cans with the wrong kind of pull tab in a movie set in the 1960s is a _minor_ nitpick (and yes, I _do_ look for such things). > [@](#): > > If you’ve only seen it once, I highly recommend rewatching it, particularly the (imho) superior extended version. Uh, based on everything you’ve said here, I’m gonna pass. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2007, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/55 "2007-05-13T15:28:33Z")
[QUOTE=T\_SQUARE] I can’t understand how anyone can call T3 horrible with a straight face. I get the feeling from some detractors that they think T3 is more of the same, to an increased degree. To me, this is a good thing. It’s everything I love about action movies… put on crack and Red Bull. Besides the aforementioned cemetery scene, which is the stuff of legend, there is the crane chase, the bathroom fight, and the helicopter crash. Oh, and the TX’s behind. Everything about the film is beautifully over the top. And this, Dopers, is why we go to the movies. [/QUOTE] The only thing cool about T-3 was the ending which nicely tied up the series and avoided any time travel paradox. “The future is not set, there is no fate but what we make for ourselves”. Well, except that Kyle Reece can’t go back in time to be John Conners father unless Skynet and Judgement Day and all happens. So take THAT time/space continuem. The TX, while pleasing to look at, was a little over the top. Plasma guns and nano-whatevers and shit. And for what it’s worth, playing that emotionless robot is about the greatest acting range I’ve ever seen Kristanna Loken show. > [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Because the ending of the film was practically telegraphed from the moment you saw the trailer. Every Terminator movie is telegraphed! They all follow the same pattern: People in LA going about their business (filmed at “magic hour”) bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz_WHOMP_ I need your clothes..your motorcycle..and your glasses Stalking…stalking Have you seen this person? bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz_WHOMP_ Stalking…stalking killing friends and family Stalking…stalking Gunfight Come with me if you want to live! Running…running Gunfight Running…running Caught by the cops Hi, I’m Dr. Silberman! These crazy people think they’re from the future! I like your bike Planning…planning All hell breaks loose Get..Out Cornered in the old industrial building!! The evil terminator is dead! No it’s not!! Ok..now it is! What does the future hold? …and roll credits. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2007, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/56 "2007-05-13T15:58:32Z")
ooo.almost forgot - throw in a couple of "I’ll be back"s and "hasta la vista baby"s as well ---
**Author:** ![T\_SQUARE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@T\_SQUARE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T_SQUARE)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/57 "2007-05-13T18:07:53Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] Every Terminator movie is telegraphed! They all follow the same pattern: People in LA going about their business (filmed at “magic hour”) bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz_WHOMP_ I need your clothes..your motorcycle..and your glasses Stalking…stalking Have you seen this person? bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz_WHOMP_ Stalking…stalking killing friends and family Stalking…stalking Gunfight Come with me if you want to live! Running…running Gunfight Running…running Caught by the cops Hi, I’m Dr. Silberman! These crazy people think they’re from the future! I like your bike Planning…planning All hell breaks loose Get..Out Cornered in the old industrial building!! The evil terminator is dead! No it’s not!! Ok..now it is! What does the future hold? …and roll credits. [/QUOTE] Different strokes and folks and whatnot, but why is this a bad thing? Call me low brow, but I’d pay 8 bucks to see a new movie using this formula once a month. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/58 "2007-05-13T19:49:52Z")
[QUOTE=T\_SQUARE] Different strokes and folks and whatnot, but why is this a bad thing? Call me low brow, but I’d pay 8 bucks to see a new movie using this formula once a month. [/QUOTE] As would I. And what all the T3 haters seem to keep ignoring is that Terminator 4 cannot follow that formula anymore. It’s time for the war against the machines and I have been waiting for this ever since the end of T3. And I even thought Nick Stahl did a better job than Edward Furlong! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/59 "2007-05-13T20:55:13Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] To me, any movie where the best thing you can say about it is, “That blowed up real good!” isn’t really worth watching. [/QUOTE] I dunno, [sometimes the Academy takes notice.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060176/awards) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574/60 "2007-05-13T20:58:14Z")
[QUOTE=T\_SQUARE] Different strokes and folks and whatnot, but why is this a bad thing? Call me low brow, but I’d pay 8 bucks to see a new movie using this formula once a month. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say it was bad. My point was simply that it’s silly to complain about the Terminator films being “telegraphed”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-terminator-films-get-out/403574.md?page=4)