# More than 70,000 Australians identify their religion as "Jedi" on nation census **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2002, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901 "2002-08-28T04:19:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![the\_great\_dalmuti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b2d939/32.png) [@the\_great\_dalmuti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_great_dalmuti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/1 "2002-08-28T04:19:55Z")
Here’s a link to the story: [http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/08/27/australia.starwars.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/08/27/australia.starwars.ap/index.html) It’s about how 70,000 Australians identified themselves to be of the “Jedi” religion on last year’s national census, and the goverment is a little pissed off about it. > [@](#): > > When made aware of the campaign, the statistics agency announced that respondents faced a fine of Aust. $1,000 ($540) if they were found to have given false information . . . > > The bureau said that the Jedi response was categorized as “not defined” for census purposes." First, are there, or should there be specific guidelines as to what faiths are recognized by national governments? And second, when you ask someone their religious affiliation, how can you prove that their answer is “false information”? Even if they answer something absurd, like “Jedi” or “Toklienian”, is it really possible to prove that they’re lying? Best, TGD ---
**Author:** ![the\_great\_dalmuti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b2d939/32.png) [@the\_great\_dalmuti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_great_dalmuti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/2 "2002-08-28T04:23:29Z")
Sorry. Obviously, the OP should read “national census” and not “nation census.” -TGD ---
**Author:** ![robinc308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@robinc308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinc308)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/3 "2002-08-28T04:36:44Z")
Interesting questions you raise, however, in this case, I’m not sure that it applies. The majority of people who answered Jedi did so because of an email campaign (and it’s subsequent news coverage) protesting the presence of a question about religious affiliation. Now if people had come up with that answer by themselves, that’s fine. It was an optional question - they could have left it blank. But it’s against the law to knowingly put a false answer on the form. As for proving that they really don’t follow some Jedi religion - that’s another matter, and I don’t expect that they’ll follow up all that much - just make a lot of noise about it so that people are discouraged from doing it next time and buggering up the statistics. However, as for government recognition of a religion, that’s another matter. In Australia, we can practice whatever religion we feel like whether the government recognises it or not so long as it doesn’t break other laws (ie a religion that sacrificed children would not be OK, but if I worshipped a boiled egg, that’s OK). You don’t need government recognition. Now if I put my religion down on the census as eggonian, my answer would get put into the “other” category - it’s not a major religion - I’m its only follower and so doesn’t get listed out and looked into in any great detail, and that’s what they’re doing with Jedi - it’s getting listed as “other” - even at 70000 that’s less than 1%, and basically just isn’t significant - especially as they strongly suspect (and with good reason) that the vast majority who put Jedi on the form were being smartasses. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/4 "2002-08-28T04:41:09Z")
And worse, it’s all the fault of the people who pissed around and answered “Jedi” if the facilities for other religions don’t now get built : > [@](#): > > “The cost of wrong information is to the current and potential users of these services,” the agency said. “If, for example, people of a particular religious affiliation do not provide the correct information, certain facilities might not be built that otherwise would be.” Of course one wonders precisely which people belonging to orthodox religions are going to be deprived of facilities because 70,000 non-orthodox people answered “Jedi”. I also question the figure of 12.8 million Christians. This was an **optional** question which a great many people don’t answer. Even assuming that every Christian adult in the country answered it, I doubt you’d come up with 12.8 million - maybe some of the Christian respondents are lying too. ---
**Author:** ![robinc308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@robinc308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinc308)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/5 "2002-08-28T05:14:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by reprise \* > \*\*I also question the figure of 12.8 million Christians. This was an **optional** question which a great many people don’t answer. Even assuming that every Christian adult in the country answered it, I doubt you’d come up with 12.8 million - maybe some of the Christian respondents are lying too. \*\* I reckon you could come up with 12.8 million. Remember that it’s counting kids, so if mum and dad called themselves christian, the kids probably got listed as christian too. Couple that with the fact that you get many people who call themselves christian although are not actively involved in a church anywhere. Maybe they got baptised as a kid, maybe they go to church on Christmas day, maybe their parents sent them to Sunday school, and as a result, in the absence of any other religious affiliation, call themselves christian - lacking anything else to concisely describe their religion. The fact that it’s optional probably doesn’t mean much - when people are filling out forms (especially if 99% is compulsory), they’ll just fill out all the questions without checking if they have to… ---
**Author:** ![tclouie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/838e76/32.png) [@tclouie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tclouie)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/6 "2002-08-28T05:39:19Z")
Heh. Cool. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/7 "2002-08-28T06:05:06Z")
It is a time-honored tradition in Australia to satire the government and/or government policies (It’s easier than actually doing anything about it.) My WAG is the email campaign served a dual purpose: to satire the census in the first place and commit an act of civil disobedience. Aussie humor is quite sophisticated, biting and topical. I don’t think most Americans really understand nor appreciate it because it requires active participation in it, including those who are the butt of the joke. Americans, OTOH have to be spoon-fed their humor (laugh tracks) after the political-correct censors have diluted and distorted the joke. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/8 "2002-08-28T07:43:42Z")
> [@](#): > > First, are there, or should there be specific guidelines as to what faiths are recognized by national governments? > > And second, when you ask someone their religious affiliation, how can you prove that their answer is “false information”? Even if they answer something absurd, like “Jedi” or “Toklienian”, is it really possible to prove that they’re lying? First, yes there are – > [@](#): > > **ABS recognises that people have a wide range of belief systems** > > If your belief system is “Jedi” then answer as such on the census form. But if you would normally answer Anglican or Jewish or Buddhist or something else to the question “what is your religion?” and for the census you answer “Jedi” then this may impact on social services provision if enough people do the same. > > […snip…] > > **Criteria for inclusion in the Australian Standard Classification of Religious Groups** > > _The Australian Standard Classification Of Religious Groups_ (ABS Cat. No. 1266.0) lists all religions which the ABS has identified and is used for coding census responses. The criteria used for recognising something as a religion are discussed in that publication and go beyond the number of responses a particular answer receives in the census. > > The classification is is periodically updated when new information comes to light. Answers such as Jedi and others which have not to this point in time been identified as a religion in the classification will be coded to the one category"not defined",which is the label to be used in standard census output reports. > > It is not practical to separately list in these reports each and every different response received for the religion question. The ABS will know, however, how many people gave a particular response and following the census the ABS classification program will evaluate all such responses to see which, if any, warrant separate identification in the next issue of the classification. So, to answer your questions: 1. Yes, there are criteria. 2. The results are reviewed to see if a new religious category is needed. 3. Common sense seems to play a large role in this. 4. Nobody is being prevented from honestly stating their religion. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/9 "2002-08-28T07:51:00Z")
**Duckster** , who am I to disagree. But I think you exaggerate. A little 🙂 And **TGD** I’m not sure it would be too hard for the govt to prove that “Jedi” was a false answer, for most of the people who answered the question that way. I mean first the police execute a search warrant and take away your pc and find the email email, then they interview friends and maybe family and ask them whether you’ve ever mentioned “Jedi-ism” before. I don’t think there’d be too much trouble convincing a magistrate that your answer was false, in these circumstances. That said, there is no way in the world that anyone’s going to get prosecuted. Governments generally know not to do things that make them appear as jackasses. Especially in Australia where religion is not taken very seriously. And **reprise** I too found that tripe about this campaign resulting in facilities not getting built a hoot. I can see it now: a seriously religious person (of the type who actually uses government funded religious facilities) (do they exist?) typing Jedi on his/her census form, as a joke, or form of protest against the question Yeah, right! ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/10 "2002-08-28T09:50:23Z")
Teh same thign happene din the UK’s census last year: > **[Jedi Knights achieve official recognition as a religion](https://www.theregister.com/2001/10/09/jedi_knights_achieve_official_recognition/)** > > National Statistics office gets in touch ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/11 "2002-08-28T11:17:14Z")
Is it not a bit odd that people would protest against being asked (on a voluntary basis) about their religious beliefs but not against being asked (on a compulsory basis) much more intrusive questions such as who they live with, whether they are married to that person, how many children they have, and so forth? ---
**Author:** ![IcicleFuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ba8739/32.png) [@IcicleFuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IcicleFuzz)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/12 "2002-08-28T11:57:54Z")
So this means there are officially 70,000 geeks living in Australia, right? ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/13 "2002-08-28T15:17:35Z")
So it was protesting the question, was it? I thought it was just trying to get enough numbers so that our govt would have to include Jedi as an option next time around. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/14 "2002-08-28T15:31:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > \*\*So it was protesting the question, was it? I thought it was just trying to get enough numbers so that our govt would have to include Jedi as an option next time around. \*\* Oh. I was relying on **robinc308** ’s post to the effect that this was a protest gesture. If the objective was simply to have the category “Jedi” printed on the next census form, then **IcicleFuzz** is obviously right. ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/15 "2002-08-28T15:45:45Z")
> [@](#): > > - originally posted by Duckster\* > Aussie humor is quite sophisticated, biting and topical. I don’t think most Americans really understand nor appreciate it because it requires active participation in it, including those who are the butt of the joke. Americans, OTOH have to be spoon-fed their humor (laugh tracks) after the political-correct censors have diluted and distorted the joke. Is this a wind up that exemplifies Australian humour? ---
**Author:** ![tclouie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/838e76/32.png) [@tclouie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tclouie)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/16 "2002-08-28T18:13:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tclouie \* > \*\*Heh. Cool. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duckster \* > \*\*Aussie humor is quite sophisticated, biting and topical. I don’t think most Americans really understand nor appreciate it. \*\* I’m American. I got the joke right away. Do you base your opinion on the large number of clueless Yanks whom you obviously know personally, or on something you saw on television? We’ve got an Aussie play in performance here in Los Angeles – it’s called “The Puppetry of the Penis” and consists entirely of two grown Australian men twisting their sex organs into various origami shapes. (So say the reviews. 😉 ) Now, THAT’s some sophisticated Aussie humor!!! ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/17 "2002-08-28T19:32:00Z")
I’m british and I never saw it as such a big deal, perhaps becuase the question was optional. I did it just to have it reported on the news that x 1000 people did. The only official recognition I’m looking for is that. Besides, I’m not sure what I believe, and if what I believe is athiest or agnostic, and if its a religion. Since I’m ‘other’ on our census, I don’t see how it makes any difference. I’m assuming people with a religion put that down and the government can’t be too stupid to know those x 1000 people are really ‘other.’ The people who should get pissed off are people who _really_ believe in the force, and get swamped out of the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/18 "2002-08-28T23:44:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shade \* > The people who should get pissed off are people who _really_ believe in the force, and get swamped out of the picture. Uh-oh, will this end with 95 droids nailed to a church door? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/19 "2002-08-29T05:19:15Z")
Holy Banta poop on a stick!!! :eek: I thought it was all 100% joke, but this site I found after a quick search makes me doubt that idea: [http://www.jediism.org/](http://www.jediism.org/) > [@](#): > > Jediism is not the same as that which is portrayed within the Star Wars Saga by George Lucas and Lucasfilm LTD. George Lucas’ Jedi™ are fictional characters that exist within a literary and cinematic universe. The Jedi™ discussed within this website refer to factual people within this world that live or lived their lives according to Jediism, of which we recognize and work together as a community to both cultivate and celebrate. Jedi™ Apprentices, Knights, Commanders, Scholars, Masters, Scribes and High Councilors embrace Jediism as a real living, breathing religion, and sincerely strive to seek out and emulate real life examples of Jediism in the long rich history of mankind. Jediism bases less of its focus on myth and fiction, and more upon those real life examples of Jediism. OooooooooooooooooooK! Whatever makes you tick, Mace V! 🙂 (They even have a forum with hundreds of members! But, I have no time to investigate further) As for your questions; I say first that this is the reason why separation of church and state is needed, in this case the state should bug off. Second: Since Lucas has not delivered the last stone tablet…. err movie, the idea that they can consider themselves a religion is shot by the pedantic fact that it’s cannon remains incomplete. BUT, AFAIK that same point can be made of some mainstream religions! As the Jediism site shows, that faith doesn’t need the movies to thrive because Lucas ripped many ideas from other religions. People could just have chosen to call their peculiar faith Jediism as a short cut to describe their religion, good luck trying to prove that that is a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901/20 "2002-08-29T21:08:59Z")
Oh Australians. There was a cute bit in Harper’s about numerous political parties created by mischevious Aussies that were being banned by authorities, things like the “Who Likes to Party? Party”. As for the snipe about US humour, well, Saved by the Bell and some of the other tripe that gets sent abroad isn’t exactly an accurate representation of American culture, as far as I can tell. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-than-70-000-australians-identify-their-religion-as-jedi-on-nation-census/125901.md?page=2)