# More Trumpian lawyers in potential trouble **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 18, 2021, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748 "2021-07-18T09:09:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/1 "2021-07-18T09:09:16Z")
> **[Pro-Trump lawyers confronted by judge over fundraising site financing their...](https://www.rawstory.com/trump-election-lawsuits-2653812666/)** > > According to a report from the Washington Post, two pro-Donald Trump lawyers facing disciplinary sanctions for filing a lawsuit demanding $160 billion in damages over the 2020 presidential election results were called on the carpet on Friday by a... I was unfamilar with this case, but a couple lawyers in Colorado filed a federal lawsuit back in December and now may face dicipliinary action. The lawyers names’ are Gary D. Fielder and Ernest John Walker. The lawsuit was on behalf of 160 million voters and against Dominion Voting Systems, Facebook, its founder Mark Zuckerberg, his wife Priscilla Chan and elected officials in four states. They were asking for $160 billion in damages. The suit was dismissed back in April and now the lawyers may face dicipline for filing a frivolous lawsuit. They had zero evidence; just a good-faith belief that the election was stolen. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/2 "2021-07-18T09:33:12Z")
Good. They should get the severest discipline available for their stunt. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/3 "2021-07-18T09:38:52Z")
They’re wealthy grifting attorneys so… is that a sternly worded letter or a one-time public tsking? Or it just dismissal of charges and silence? ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/4 "2021-07-18T11:37:24Z")
How do we know that they had a good faith belief that the election was stolen? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/5 "2021-07-18T13:16:42Z")
The same way we know someone is a True Christian: they say they are. What could go wrong with that kind of system? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/6 "2021-07-18T16:29:23Z")
The court system does not work on good faith belief alone. You need at least some actual evidence. Otherwise the court system could be overloaded with baseless cases. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/7 "2021-07-18T16:34:26Z")
Unless and until punishments of consequence are handed down, this will continue and this will escalate. A court ruling of “Tsk tsk, you should know better!” doesn’t mean jack shit when “knowing better” is superseded by “knowing what you can get away with in the real world”. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/8 "2021-07-19T03:11:45Z")
They should throw these lawyers somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/9 "2021-07-19T04:00:20Z")
🤔 > [@Dick the Butcher](#): > > The first thing we do, let’s go to the quarry and throw all the lawyers down there!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/10 "2021-07-19T17:30:48Z")
Who was the plaintiff? Just curious. AFAIK, lawyers file suits for a plaintiff. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/11 "2021-07-19T17:47:25Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Who was the plaintiff? If you mean the case in the OP, it was on behalf of 160 million voters. I wonder who these 160 million voters were. I’m a voter and I certainly was not asked nor did I agree to join this suit. I have a sneaking suspicion I’m not alone in this. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/12 "2021-07-26T15:42:57Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > If you mean the case in the OP, it was on behalf of 160 million voters. I wonder who these 160 million voters were. I’m a voter and I certainly was not asked nor did I agree to join this suit. I have a sneaking suspicion I’m not alone in this. That’s just the way class-action lawsuits work. If the lawsuit succeeds you would be given a chance to opt-out of the settlement or passively accept the settlement and give up your ability to sue for the same thing in future. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/13 "2021-08-05T07:45:06Z")
Update: Judge has ruled that these two lawyers have to pay the legal costs of the defendants. Those defendants comprise 18 individuals and companies. How much the total bill will be has yet to be determined. They’re going to appeal, of course. > **[‘The stuff of which violent insurrections are made:’ Federal judge punishes...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/colorado-sanctions-trump-lawsuit/2021/08/04/704dec92-f53a-11eb-a49b-d96f2dac0942_story.html)** > > Two lawyers were ordered to pay opponents’ legal fees as the judicial system grapples with holding attorneys accountable for frivolous election challenges. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/14 "2021-08-05T16:12:19Z")
As I mentioned in a thread in The Pit, two of the companies named in the lawsuit were Facebook and Dominion. Additionally Zuckerberg and his wife Priscilla Chan were named as parties being sued as well. I find myself smiling at this since I’m quite certain the lawyers hired by these companies and people are really expensive. I won’t be at all disappointed if these two idiots end up bankrupted paying the legal fees for these attorneys. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/15 "2021-08-05T16:30:29Z")
They’ll set up a GoFundMe or a Patreon and their supporters will flood them with untraceable funds. Charles Koch alone has a lot of money and a lot of shells to funnel it through. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/16 "2021-08-05T17:16:25Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Additionally Zuckerberg and his wife Priscilla Chan were named as parties being sued as well. I find myself smiling at this since I’m quite certain the lawyers hired by these companies and people are really expensive. Probably [Cravath Scale](https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/cravath-paul-weiss-match-new-top-salary-rates-associates-2021-06-17/), so salary is about $200,000 plus market bonuses for brand new attorneys. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/17 "2021-08-05T17:38:31Z")
Unfortunately the judge explicitly specified that the legal fees allowed would reflect standard rates for Colorado, so just because Zuckerberg decided to hire super expensive lawyers doesn’t mean the other side has to pay for them. > The Court will note that the “reasonable”fees for commercial litigators vary wildly across the country.While hourly rates in excess of $1,000 per hour for an experienced litigator may be the going rate in some locations on the coasts, it is not the case in Colorado.The Court will be looking to the Colorado Bar Association Economics of Law Practice Surveyfor guidance on the reasonableness of the rates requested. The question I have, is if they appeal the decision and lose do they also have to pay the additional attorney fees incurred by the defendant as part of the appeal? If I were them, I’d cut my losses. (Actually if I were them I would probably voluntarily commit myself to the nearest mental institution for psychiatric treatment but that’s not being discussed here). ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/18 "2021-08-05T18:01:10Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > They’ll set up a GoFundMe or a Patreon and their supporters will flood them with untraceable funds. Charles Koch alone has a lot of money and a lot of shells to funnel it through. Sure, but a lot of people will set up things like that that they say are for the lawyers and then abscond. How much will actually get through? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/19 "2021-08-05T18:20:48Z")
That’s not how Patreon works. It isn’t even how GoFundMe works, really. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748/20 "2021-08-05T19:09:20Z")
So it never happens? Good to know. It’s not what I hearg [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-trumpian-lawyers-in-potential-trouble/946748.md?page=2)