# More utter stupidity from the NY Times (Fellating Uri Geller)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 9, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797 "2023-07-09T03:35:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/21 "2023-07-09T09:40:02Z")
Am I the only one who thinks the article basically says nothing of any interest or substance at all?
Geller is a magician who most likely acheives his effect by doing tricks that pretty much any other magician out there can replicate. That much has been known, understood and demonstrated for the best part of 50 years.
The reason for his early adulation by the credulous and subsequent scorn from professional magicians is that he sought to position himself as someone with paranormal powers. He was a serial liar and dishonest (As opposed to Randi’s “honest liar”).
This article doesn’t rehabilitate his reputation and I can’t find anywhere in there where he brings himself to admit what he is. Like herpes, Geller seems to pop up unwarranted and unwished for from time to time.
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### Author:  [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/22 "2023-07-09T11:19:23Z")
> [@](#):
>
> A mere handful of magicians have left anything close to this kind of imprint. If Mr. Geller can’t actually bend metal with his brain — and civility and fairness demands this “if” — he is the author of a benign charade
The author is either clueless or deliberately obfuscating reality. Most performers within the magic community do not pretend that they have actual mystical powers, and there is a sharp divide between those who do and those who do not. Calling Geller’s parlor trick “benign” is irresponsible.
David Segal can get bent.
mmm
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/23 "2023-07-09T12:04:28Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> Dude. You’re leaving out your own reply to him.
My opinion is unchanged. He’s a fraud, always has been. So what? Does anyone around here know how to read?
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### Author:  [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/24 "2023-07-09T12:06:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> Does anyone around here know how to read?
State clearly what your point is and we can have a back and forth. I’m unsure what it is that you are saying.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/25 "2023-07-09T12:12:09Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#):
>
> State clearly what your point is and we can have a back and forth. I’m unsure what it is that you are saying.
How much more clear can I be. Magicians are jealous of Geller’s success. That’s it. My opinion of Geller hasn’t changed at all, he’s a fraud, always has been. The fact is that he’s a rich fraud. Now what’s your argument?
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### Author:  [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/26 "2023-07-09T12:18:49Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> How much more clear can I be. Magicians are jealous of Geller’s success. That’s it.
I’ve no doubt that some people in the magic business are jealous of Gellers success. It’ll be guaranteed in pretty much any area of the entertainment business. I don’t think that is much of a revelation.
It would not be right to imply that anyone criticising Geller, even from within the business, is so motivated. Randi, Penn and Teller, multiple others, they dislike him because of his outright falsehoods and what they see as the cheapening of their craft.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/27 "2023-07-09T12:42:21Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#):
>
> It would not be right to imply that anyone criticising Geller, even from within the business, is so motivated. Randi, Penn and Teller, multiple others, they dislike him because of his outright falsehoods and what they see as the cheapening of their craft.
I don’t understand what that sentence means because it doesn’t make sense, but it clearly has nothing to do with anything I said.
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### Author:  [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/28 "2023-07-09T12:52:24Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> I don’t understand what that sentence means because it doesn’t make sense, but it clearly has nothing to do with anything I said.
What you wrote seems to imply to that people criticising him are doing so out of jealousy. When we have lots of examples of people criticising him for other reasons. The sentence you claim not to understand is speaking to that implication, not the explicit words you have used.
If that is not what you want people to infer then fine, feel free to clarify.
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### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/29 "2023-07-09T13:06:52Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#):
>
> David Segal can get bent.
I see what you did there.
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### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/30 "2023-07-09T13:16:07Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> > Mr. Geller ultimately emerged the victor in this war, and proof of his triumph is now on display in the museum: a coffee-table book
I pretty much have to agree with this assessment, so long as we define “triumph” and “proof” properly. Geller, and a whole lot of other charlatans, pretty much have won the war. We skeptics lost. Belief in all sorts of nonsense has flourished in the last few decades, despite our best efforts to debunk this stuff.
And the proof is Uri Geller still selling books.
Sometimes the bad guys win.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/31 "2023-07-09T13:16:58Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#):
>
> What you wrote seems to imply to that people criticising him are doing so out of jealousy.
How on earth did you get that idea. I think I made it pretty clear that those who don’t criticize him do so because they are envious of his success, They want to be him. How much clearer could I have been in attributing that to the magicians who have not approached his level of success, which would leave out almost all of the magicians people have ever heard of. Randi, Penn and Teller, and so many other successful magicians don’t support Geller and never have. But the vast majority of professional magicians are not anywhere near that successful. I don’t know for sure but I suspect they rarely earn more than they spend on their craft. And unfortunately, and to my own surprise several years ago, i realized that not only did I know too small of a sample of professional magicians to assume their opinions on the subject but the ones I did know likely did not maintain integrity on this matter. Since then, everything I have seen on the subject, and the opinions of others all show that people in general don’t care that Geller is a fraud, and that he promotes ignorance and flat out stupidity. They don’t recognize or want to recognize that he took money fraudulently by claiming to have special powers, not simply for entertaining people. And had he not done that, or for those who don’t believe he did that, what is the argument against him? That he’s a liar? Good lord the world is so full of more dangerous liars than he is. Of course he’s not going to be criticized by his colleagues whose profession is based on lying. I don’t expect the average professional magician to care or understand any more than they do on this subject. I care a lot about the art and science of magic for entertainment. I wish I had been better at it and could have joined those who took a stand against that asshole Geller. But even had i been a hack magician I know I would never have cut charlatan any slack because I have plenty of experience ignoring crowds of idiots. And I also know to expect people to generally behave that way would lead to nothing but disappointment.
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### Author:  [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/32 "2023-07-09T13:22:17Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> How on earth did you get that idea.
I was given a hint when you said
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> Magicians are jealous of Geller’s success. That’s it.
And I’m now very confused because you then state
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> I made it pretty clear that those who don’t criticize him do so because they are envious of his success
Which suggests that people who _aren’t_ criticising him are refraining from doing so because they are jealous.
You perhaps see why people are trying to clarify what you are trying to say here.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/33 "2023-07-09T13:24:57Z")
> [@Horatius](#):
>
> Geller, and a whole lot of other charlatans, pretty much have won the war. We skeptics lost. Belief in all sorts of nonsense has flourished in the last few decades, despite our best efforts to debunk this stuff.
> .
Con artists have flourished in every era. Alchemy had a long and sleazy history.
Combatting frauds and protecting people from the consequences of their credulousness requires a never-ending effort.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/34 "2023-07-09T13:46:19Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> Magicians are jealous of Geller’s success. That’s it.
Yes?
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#):
>
> Which suggests that people who _aren’t_ criticising him are refraining from doing so because they are jealous.
Correct.
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> The article reflects the long time opinions of all the magicians who never came close to the success of Geller. They all would have done the same as he did if they thought of it first.
I’m really not following you at all. How many ways can I say that magicians in general are not critical of Geller, they feel something similar to what is described in that article, and they would have done the same thing Geller did if they could have.
What is your position here? Do you think Geller is not a fraud? Do you think other magicians by consensus think Geller has done unacceptable things in his career, or the opposite? Do you think handful of highly successful magicians, with success on the level of Geller’s, have never hesitated to criticize Geller, represent the entirety of the profession?
Seriously, is anybody willing to state a consistent opinion on this subject and defend it?
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### Author:  [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/35 "2023-07-09T14:12:13Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> Seriously, is anybody willing to state a consistent opinion on this subject and defend it?
The irony!
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/36 "2023-07-09T15:27:47Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#):
>
> You perhaps see why people are trying to clarify what you are trying to say here.
Yep, it’s definitely not just you.
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### Author:  [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/37 "2023-07-09T15:32:29Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> Correct.
Well then I’m officially stumped, I don’t think you are in position to say what people think when they are not expressing any opinion at all. If you can divine the inner workings of their mind then you are operating on a supernatural level yourself.
How on earth can you know that the _absence_ of criticism is derived from jealousy? or any motive at all? That seems to be pulled fullly-formed out of the aether.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/38 "2023-07-09T15:33:33Z")
Or the Ath.
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### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/39 "2023-07-09T16:28:36Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> How on earth did you get that idea. I think I made it pretty clear that those who don’t criticize him do so because they are envious of his success, They want to be him. How much clearer could I have been in attributing that to the magicians who have not approached his level of success, which would leave out almost all of the magicians people have ever heard of. Randi, Penn and Teller, and so many other successful magicians don’t support Geller and never have. But the vast majority of professional magicians are not anywhere near that successful. I don’t know for sure but I suspect they rarely earn more than they spend on their craft. And unfortunately, and to my own surprise several years ago, i realized that not only did I know too small of a sample of professional magicians to assume their opinions on the subject but the ones I did know likely did not maintain integrity on this matter. Since then, everything I have seen on the subject, and the opinions of others all show that people in general don’t care that Geller is a fraud, and that he promotes ignorance and flat out stupidity. They don’t recognize or want to recognize that he took money fraudulently by claiming to have special powers, not simply for entertaining people. And had he not done that, or for those who don’t believe he did that, what is the argument against him? That he’s a liar? Good lord the world is so full of more dangerous liars than he is. Of course he’s not going to be criticized by his colleagues whose profession is based on lying. I don’t expect the average professional magician to care or understand any more than they do on this subject. I care a lot about the art and science of magic for entertainment. I wish I had been better at it and could have joined those who took a stand against that asshole Geller. But even had i been a hack magician I know I would never have cut charlatan any slack because I have plenty of experience ignoring crowds of idiots. And I also know to expect people to generally behave that way would lead to nothing but disappointment.
Tri paragraphs. We’ll be glad you did.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/40 "2023-07-09T16:36:41Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> How much clearer could I have been
Quite a lot clearer. I don’t understand what you are trying to say.
I _think_ you are saying that:
1. Uri Geller has achieved material success through fraudulent means.
2. Other magicians, envious of this material success, dislike the man because they were unable to achieve similar wealth / status through similar fraud.
What others seem to be saying (in my opinion, correctly), is that #2 is insufficient as a motivator because:
a) Many illusionists and others who perform “magic” are professionals. They take care to keep the supension of disbelief in magic / the paranormal to the confines of the show, so that the audience is complicit in their deceit as a form of entertainment.
Geller, on the other hand, pretends that his paranormal abilities are real and there all the time.
So many professional entertainers are not so much envious of his wealth, as they look down on him for his unprofessional ways.
b) Many people probably do not criticize him because there’s no particular reason for doing so. It’s not like people are require to post an opinion about Geller before going on stage somewhere.
c) Others do not criticize him because, although still around, his heyday was about a generation and a half ago. He’s old news. You and the NYT might still be interested, but the community of magicians may well have moved on.
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