# More utter stupidity from the NY Times (Fellating Uri Geller) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797 "2023-07-09T03:35:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/101 "2023-07-12T18:52:04Z")
That would work well. It could also be that they were on something tacky enough to keep them in place but not actually adhered to the surface. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/102 "2023-07-12T19:13:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If you could PROVE paranormal abilities, you’d be the richest human who ever lived in a span of six months. That recalls this classic XKCD comic: > **[The Economic Argument](https://xkcd.com/808/)** > > Not to be confused with 'making money selling this stuff to OTHER people who think it works', which corporate accountants and actuaries have zero problems with. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/103 "2023-07-12T19:55:14Z")
Not entirely accurate: dowsing was seriously used by the oil industry, including some of the majors. They started dying down in the 20s as more scientific methods got up to speed and largely died out by the 60s when computer signal processing was pretty much the final nail in the coffin for them. The dowsers included lots of people with advanced degrees, too, so not just con artists and cranks. Some fields, you were going to find oil no matter where you drilled so, like the case for water, confirmation bias helping things along. The term ‘doodlebugger’ is still used to refer to exploration geophysicists, especially ones who are older or out in the field, though mainly in an ironic sense most of the last century. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/104 "2023-07-12T20:00:20Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Not entirely accurate: dowsing was seriously used by the oil industry, including some of the majors. Some, but not all. So did the ones using it “make a killing” compared to those who didn’t? Again, it’s not surprising that _some_ people use these things; that’s what irrational belief is all about. The point is, none of them ended up head-and-shoulders above the rest, because dowsing didn’t actually work. If it did work, the results would have been noticeable, and immediately copied by all competitors. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/105 "2023-07-12T20:18:57Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > Ricardo Montalban, actually. Johnny thanks him by (first) name near the end of the clip. Okay, I wasn’t sure with how fuzzy the video was. I kept going back and forth between them. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/106 "2023-07-12T20:23:23Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Some, but not all. So did the ones using it “make a killing” compared to those who didn’t? Sure. Those majors are still around and huge. It really was effectively all of the majors. Smaller players did other, equally unscientific things. It didn’t have to “make a killing”. Just had to look convincing enough for somebody at the top to embrace it. Yes, it has subsequently been replaced, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t work (though we now solidly know it doesn’t), just that it doesn’t work as well as other methods. Same as the other things - not being used primarily doesn’t mean they don’t work, it just means they aren’t as profitable or useful, which is an important distinction in this case. It’s a logical fallacy we see all the time around here, e.g. “masks don’t prevent 100% of COVID, so they don’t work at all”. Just because we happen to know in this case that the provided examples are bunkum doesn’t mean the logic behind the statement is good. Homeopathy is another example. There are some private hospitals that have not exactly embraced it but have included it in their practices to attract more business, especially from people who would refuse medical treatment otherwise. Profitable is profitable, and in the case of people who distrust modern medicine, perhaps even beneficial (in that they can be convinced to incorporate scientific based care as well). Randall is a smart guy but he does oversimplify from time to time. It’s just a comic strip, after all, no matter how clever it often is. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/107 "2023-07-12T20:26:55Z")
But all of that falls under his alt-text, “Not to be confused with ‘making money selling this stuff to OTHER people who think it works’, which corporate accountants and actuaries have zero problems with.” You can sell anything anyone wants to buy. That’s different from using that thing to _create_ wealth, rather than just move it around. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/108 "2023-07-12T20:29:30Z")
Eh. That’s basically con artistry. This is basically a case of knowing the right answer and not realizing some logical shortcuts have been taken when the answer is derived. Some people do believe those things work. Just because they aren’t used to “make a killing” is not a proof they don’t work, merely evidence they aren’t necessarily as effective. As above, that’s the same sort of logic used to justify the idea that masking is useless for preventing the spread of respiratory illnesses. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/109 "2023-07-17T18:38:45Z")
Skepchick take down of the NYT article. Nothing new that hasn’t been covered in this thread, but hopefully it will reach some more people. > **[Uri Geller is Still a Giant Fraud, Despite the Glowing NY Times Profile](https://skepchick.org/2023/07/uri-geller-is-still-a-giant-fraud-despite-the-glowing-ny-times-profile/)** > > I have great news for you all, as reported by the New York Times last week: finally, the greatest “grudge” in the world of professional magic has been set aside. What could it be? Professional magi… ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/110 "2023-07-17T21:52:04Z")
Penn Jillette gave significant time on his podcast to talking about the NY Times article. He wasn’t too happy about it. [https://pennsundayschool.com/](https://pennsundayschool.com/) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/111 "2023-07-17T22:51:40Z")
At least for me this doesn’t lead to a podcast. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/112 "2023-07-17T23:00:06Z")
That’s the web site for Penn’s podcast. There’s a link to subscribe. Or as they say, you may subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/113 "2023-07-17T23:23:40Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > That’s the web site for Penn’s podcast. There’s a link to subscribe. As I understand it then, the only way to hear the podcast is to subscribe to it, is that right? ---
**Author:** ![Galactus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galactus/32/3581_2.png) [@Galactus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galactus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/114 "2023-07-17T23:28:34Z")
Which episode does he talk about the NY Times article? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/115 "2023-07-17T23:44:09Z")
The latest episode, which came out yesterday. I’m not sure of other ways to listen besides subscribing. I think Penn simulcasts on YouTube, so there might be a channel for it. But if you have an iPhone I believe just using the built in podcast app should play it as a one-off selection. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/116 "2023-07-17T23:48:36Z")
You can download or stream any episode without subscribing, just like any podcast. Just search for Penn’s Sunday School in your podcast app. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/117 "2023-10-27T18:59:57Z")
Hope this is worth the bump: Geller not mentioned by name, but a lovely picture of a bent spoon today with the wonderfully credulous caption “An example of a spoon bent with mind concentration in the Lily Dale Museum.” [Literally] unbelievable! Gift link: [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/realestate/mediums-lily-dale-ny.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.50w.Ezly.U5ruWWC27eUs&smid=url-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/realestate/mediums-lily-dale-ny.html?unlocked_article_code=1.50w.Ezly.U5ruWWC27eUs&smid=url-share) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/118 "2023-10-27T20:14:14Z")
I missed that Penn Jillette had addressed this last time. Since I went to the trouble to find a link, I thought I’d also link it here for everyone’s convenience. (It starts at 1:25). > ## [David Segal/Galactic Unitard - Penn's Sunday School](https://play.cdnstream1.com/s/kast/penn-s-sunday-school/david-segal-galactic-uni-28e2e3) > > Episode 926 (July 16, 2023) It was a bit harder to find. Like most podcast websites, Penn has a list of episodes and links. But it stopped updating in 2020, as did his YouTube channel. I had to look directly at the RSS/podcast feed and hunt for the URL in there. But it’s still a webpage, and not just a bare MP3. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/119 "2023-10-28T04:32:27Z")
Worth the bump I say, but of an entirely different category than the article discussed in the OP. Latest article profiles a small Spiritualist community in upstate New York. Most 19th century utopian communities never made it to the 21st century; it’s interesting that this one is still kicking. Ok, it’s not quite utopian, but it is a community centered on a fringy religion. Apparently 3 adherents are suing the Lily Dale after they were refused the title of medium: they scored close to but not quite 85%. I suspect there are issues not quite expressed in the article. Mediums contact the dead, or such is the central belief of Spiritualism. Houdini was not a fan. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797/120 "2023-10-28T05:12:01Z")
Spiritualism was still active and kicking at least in the early '70s. I remember reading an expose once by a former Spiritualist preacher who was active around that time and being bewildered that anyone could fall for such ridiculous parlor tricks. > **[M. Lamar Keene](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Lamar_Keene)** > > Morris Lamar Keene (10 August 1936 – 11 June 1996), was a spirit medium in Tampa, Florida and at Camp Chesterfield Indiana, where he was known as the "Prince of the Spiritualists". He was also the trustee of Universal Spiritualist Association. He is best known for his 1976 book The Psychic Mafia, in which he coined the term "true-believer syndrome". Keene was the subject of a six-episode series, Fake Psychic , on BBC Radio 4 in February 2022. > Morris Lamar Keene was one of three children born in ... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-utter-stupidity-from-the-ny-times-fellating-uri-geller/986797.md?page=7)