# More Zeppelin Rippin' Off? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 28, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844 "2011-09-28T03:56:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/1 "2011-09-28T03:56:48Z")
Inspired by [a post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14290106&postcount=3) in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14300549#post14300549), I’m wondering if Led Zeppelin ripped off [this Little Richard intro](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcJrExewkYA) for [Rock and Roll](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WzG64syKHA)? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/2 "2011-09-28T04:11:51Z")
That’s one of the standard songs offered up as examples of Led Zeppelin stealing songs. To be honest, that particular one I think is an obvious quote or variation of the Little Richard song, but is just meant to evoke that classic rock and roll sound. I would not call that particular case ripping off. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/3 "2011-09-28T04:19:07Z")
You can read about the genesis of the song [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_(Led_Zeppelin_song)): > [@](#): > > Led Zeppelin guitarist Jimmy Page has said that this song came to be written as a spontaneous jam session, whilst the band were trying (and failing) to finish the track “Four Sticks”. Drummer John Bonham played the introduction to Little Richard’s “Keep a Knockin’” and Page added a guitar riff.The tapes were rolling and fifteen minutes later the basis of the song was down. Said Page: > > We were recording another number [Four Sticks]; we’d just finished a take and John Bonham did the drum intro and we just followed on. I started doing pretty much half of that riff you hear on Rock n Roll and it was just so exciting that we thought, “let’s just work on this”. The riff and the sequence was really immediate to those 12-bar patterns that you had in those old rock songs like Little Richard, etc, and it was just so spur-of-the-moment the way that it just came together more or less out of nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/4 "2011-09-28T07:04:08Z")
If that’s a ripoff, [this is an atrocity](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFxTvffJqOg). ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/5 "2011-09-28T18:29:39Z")
Led Zep did so many other blatant rip-offs of sometimes whole songs that this in comparison is just a minor crime in my book. Yes, they stole the drum intro, and both songs are rhythmically similar in general, but hey, it’s basic r’n’b/rock’n roll. Both the vocal variations and the lyrics are different. This happens all the time in popular music. For example, [here’s Van Morrison](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq57hcZvEzA), a man who has complained of having been ripped off himself ad nauseam, stealing from/being inspired by a [James Carr song](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuR3kUupZ3Q) (also just the intro). ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/6 "2011-09-28T19:06:42Z")
They also totally ripped off the [Beastie Boys](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=625891) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/7 "2011-09-28T19:20:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > If that’s a ripoff, [this is an atrocity](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFxTvffJqOg). Dammit, you need to warn us before we risk hearing _ **PAT BOONE** _. Fortunately I was quick enough on the back button to avoid permanent brain damage. ---
**Author:** ![rbhughes1016](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@rbhughes1016](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbhughes1016)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/8 "2011-12-14T04:51:23Z")
Zep ripped off The Beastie’s…? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/9 "2011-12-14T07:57:51Z")
> [@rbhughes1016](#): > > Zep ripped off The Beastie’s..? Totally. They ripped off [Puff Daddy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBqT3CoXoDM), too, those bastards. ---
**Author:** ![fjs1fs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@fjs1fs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fjs1fs)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/10 "2011-12-14T14:16:43Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s one of the standard songs offered up as examples of Led Zeppelin stealing songs. To be honest, that particular one I think is an obvious quote or variation of the Little Richard song, but is just meant to evoke that classic rock and roll sound. I would not call that particular case ripping off. “Stealing a song.” What a joke. It has a similar drum intro, and then it’s a total different song. I guess if I start a song with “A One-Two, A 1-2-3-4” then my whole song would be a ripoff. “Rock and Roll” is one of the most energetic and awesome rock songs ever made, and to consider it “stolen” from Little Richard is such a joke. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/11 "2011-12-14T14:30:15Z")
Led Zep were, at least in the beginning, at their heart, a blues band. Early rock ‘n’ roll was, essentially, the blues. The blues is a musical form made up of, essentially, a single song. Thus, I’m not sure it’s even possible to “rip off” a blues song. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/12 "2011-12-14T16:00:05Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > If that’s a ripoff, [this is an atrocity](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFxTvffJqOg). I was expecting “Stairway to Heaven” from [this album](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_a_Metal_Mood:_No_More_Mr._Nice_Guy). Amazingly enough, the album is kind of interesting… not so much because of Mr. Boone, who has a limited instrument, but because of the arrangements, which are lush, complex, and in some cases provide very creative alternative interpretations of the material. I would say “Stairway to Heaven” is by far the strongest cut, both in terms of the arrangement and the vocal performance. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/13 "2011-12-14T16:22:32Z")
> [@fjs1fs](#): > > “Stealing a song.” What a joke. It has a similar drum intro, and then it’s a total different song. I guess if I start a song with “A One-Two, A 1-2-3-4” then my whole song would be a ripoff. > “Rock and Roll” is one of the most energetic and awesome rock songs ever made, and to consider it “stolen” from Little Richard is such a joke. I don’t personally consider it is stolen, as I have said, but Led Zeppelin have a history of borrowing a lot of music. “Rock and Roll,” to me, is clearly an homage to Little Richard and rock history, meant to evoke that era of rock, and that drum intro is a paraphrase of the intro of “Keep on Knockin.” But calling it a straight “rip off” is silly. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zeppelin-rippin-off/597844/14 "2011-12-14T16:47:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s one of the standard songs offered up as examples of Led Zeppelin stealing songs. To be honest, that particular one I think is an obvious quote or variation of the Little Richard song, but is just meant to evoke that classic rock and roll sound. I would not call that particular case ripping off. Exactly. No different from dropping a Chuck Berry riff into a lead guitar fill or something (vs., say lifting a whole Chuck Berry song structure like the Beach Boys did with Surfin’ USA vs. his Sweet Little Sixteen). Just using the vocabulary of rock vs. ripping something off. Zep has issues with not providing sufficient credit and therefore royalties, but this doesn’t seem like one of them, IMHO…