# More zero-tolerance BS in schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094 "2006-05-09T18:14:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/1 "2006-05-09T18:14:31Z")
[Student Suspended for Threatening Song](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2006/05/09/national/a075258D29.DTL). Grow up, people- it’s just a song. Kids I knew in high school used to sing it and similar song parodies all the time (though we did have enough sense not to sing it to any teachers). ---
**Author:** ![TwoTrouts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@TwoTrouts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoTrouts)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/2 "2006-05-09T18:26:16Z")
Wow! What scary and paranoid times we live in these days. As a kid, my friends and I would sing out the “Glory, glory Hallelujah!” song as we marched single file back to the classroom after the flag raising ceremeony. As we sang of burning schools, tortured principals, etc, the teacher just smiled ruefully and shook her head. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/3 "2006-05-09T18:28:55Z")
I hate zero-tolerance, too. However, if the teacher is telling the truth here–that he was discussing a grade with the girl when she started singing the song out loud in front of the class–this isn’t a case of a poor repressed student. I dunno that suspension is appropriate, but some sort of discipline would be appropriate. If the teacher’s distorting events, however, then he’s a tweaker. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/4 "2006-05-09T18:32:11Z")
> [@TwoTrouts](#): > > Wow! What scary and paranoid times we live in these days. > As a kid, my friends and I would sing out the “Glory, glory Hallelujah!” song as we marched single file back to the classroom after the flag raising ceremeony. As we sang of burning schools, tortured principals, etc, the teacher just smiled ruefully and shook her head. I used to like this one: Joy to the world the school burned down And all the teachers died We’re looking for the principal He’s hanging from the flagpole With a rope around his neck Really cathartic when you’re sick of school and sick of Christmas carols… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/5 "2006-05-09T18:36:32Z")
I consider myself very lucky to have graduated high school before all this zero tolerance crap got out of hand. I’d’ve been in serious trouble. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/6 "2006-05-09T18:36:50Z")
What would they do if someone started playing Alice Cooper’s _School’s Out_ ? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/7 "2006-05-09T18:37:28Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > However, if the teacher is telling the truth here–that he was discussing a grade with the girl when she started singing the song out loud in front of the class–this isn’t a case of a poor repressed student. I dunno that suspension is appropriate, but some sort of discipline would be appropriate. If she was actually trying to threaten him. As it is, this sounds ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/8 "2006-05-09T18:41:57Z")
Oh, and I forgot to make my contribution: _Joy to the world The teacher’s dead We barbecued her head!_ ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/9 "2006-05-09T18:43:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > _Joy to the world > The teacher’s dead > We barbecued her head!_ We ripped it off her body And flushed it down the potty And round and round it goes And round and round it goes And roooound and rooooound and round it goes ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/10 "2006-05-09T18:44:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If she was actually trying to threaten him. As it is, this sounds ridiculous. I still say it depends. When a student is discussing a grade with a teacher whom they believe carries a vendetta against them, during class, it’s pretty likely that the discussion has some animosity to it. If the student then launches into a song about shooting teachers, it may not be a threat, but it’s still extraordinarily disrespectful and rude. May students be punished for standing up for their rights in a civil, respectful manner? I’d say no. May students be punished for being very rude to their teachers? I think so. Again, I don’t know that suspension is appropriate, but the student’s account of what happened diverges widely from the teacher’s, and if the teacher is telling teh truth, discipline for nasty rudeness is appropriate. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/11 "2006-05-09T18:46:19Z")
And the old classic: _Deck the halls with gasoline Fa la la la la, la la la la. Light a match and watch it gleam Fa la la la la, la la la la. Watch the school burn down to ashes Fa la la, la la la la la. Aren’t you glad you played with matches? Fa la la la la, la la la la._ Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/12 "2006-05-09T18:52:45Z")
I almost forgot: Ta ra ra boom de ay We have no school today Our teacher passed away We shot her yesterday We threw her in the bay She scared the sharks away Ta ra ra boom de ay We have no school today > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > May students be punished for standing up for their rights in a civil, respectful manner? I’d say no. May students be punished for being very rude to their teachers? I think so. > > Again, I don’t know that suspension is appropriate, but the student’s account of what happened diverges widely from the teacher’s, and if the teacher is telling teh truth, discipline for nasty rudeness is appropriate. Is being suspended for five days a normal punishment for being rude and disrespectful to a teacher, without making threats? I think that’s the worst thing this could realistically be, and that’s how it should be handled (if it did happen the way the teacher described it). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/13 "2006-05-09T18:54:41Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I still say it depends. When a student is discussing a grade with a teacher whom they believe carries a vendetta against them, during class, it’s pretty likely that the discussion has some animosity to it. If the student then launches into a song about shooting teachers, it may not be a threat, but it’s still extraordinarily disrespectful and rude. I was thinking of it as disrespectful because it was threatening, but in any case we really agree here. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/14 "2006-05-09T18:58:23Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#): > > Ta ra ra boom de ay > We have no school today > Our teacher passed away > We shot her yesterday > > We threw her in the bay > She scared the sharks away > Ta ra ra boom de ay > We have no school today Wrong. Ta ra ra boom de ay We have no school today Our teacher’s sick today She had a tooth decay We threw her in the bay She scared the fish away And when we took her out She smelled like sauerkraut ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/15 "2006-05-09T19:12:57Z")
The version she sang: On top of spaghetti, All covered with blood, I shot my poor teacher With a .44 slug. Is very different from the version I remember: On top of spaghetti All covered with sand, I shot my poor teacher With a red rubber band. I couldn’t have missed her. She’s a hundred feet wide. [something-something] died. I went to her funeral. I went to her grave. Some people threw flowers. I threw a grenade. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/16 "2006-05-09T19:16:00Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#): > > Is being suspended for five days a normal punishment for being rude and disrespectful to a teacher, without making threats? I think that’s the worst thing this could realistically be, and that’s how it should be handled (if it did happen the way the teacher described it). Probably not–again, I don’t think that suspension is necessarily the best approach. I’m just saying that this may not be as innocent as it appears at first. My guess would be that the student is lying about what she did, and the school is overreacting about what she did. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/17 "2006-05-09T19:57:26Z")
People are way too uptight these days. Kids aren’t more dangerous, parents are just more scared/paranoid. Of course it’s easier for the intitutions to do teh major dicipline when a parent gives up the right to do the small corrections now and then. now for a trip down memory lane: We used to sing Row Row Row your boat Gently down the stream Push the teacher overboard and listen to her Scream. Of course it was also common for the boys to walk arm in arm around the recess grounds singing Extra extra read all about it Girls are retarded. Not exactly witty little ditties but at 6 farting in public was the hight of funny. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/18 "2006-05-09T20:11:48Z")
> [@kingpengvin](#): > > People are way too uptight these days. Kids aren’t more dangerous, parents are just more scared/paranoid. All true. I’m really glad I’m not in high school now. Not only would I be a social outcast who plays video games (as I was in high school), I’d have some paranoid horses’ asses of teachers or administrators convinced that I was potentially going to shoot up the school :rolleyes: At least when I was in school, most of my teachers liked me for not conforming to the crowd. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/19 "2006-05-09T20:20:12Z")
I can’t believe I’m coming down on the side of this issue that I usually deride. While I detest zero-tolerance nonsense and have ridiculed it in the past, this case I don’t think is the best one for pointing to its idiocy. Two reasons. One, while I sang those songs in school thirty or more years ago, I feel 100% certain that any teacher hearing them gave them any notice at all, never mind feeling threatened in any way. Post Columbine, that seems to be a different story, especially since other kids have been found planning the same type of thing. Tied to that, this wasn’t a six-year-old. Someone in 9th grade, as we have unfortunately learned, is someone who may actually seek to carry out some deranged fantasy. So for those two reasons, I think the kid in question does need to have her hand slapped. Whether that means a suspension for a day or a week or a meetiing with a psychiatrist, depends on what the girl is actually like. But she should be made to understand that songs like the one she was singing aren’t that funny anymore. Especially in 9th grade. If it was a six-year-old, give a playful slap on the back of the head and tell him to pay attention. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/20 "2006-05-09T20:30:34Z")
One possibly salient detail I overheard is that the girl in question was a recent “special transfer” student when this occurred. Can anyone else confirm? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094.md?page=2)