# More zero-tolerance BS in schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094 "2006-05-09T18:14:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/61 "2006-05-11T12:48:19Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > If the teacher felt threatened then the teacher is not only a fucking moron but was apparently never a child. There was no fucking threat, “veiled” or otherwise. Pretending to feel “threatened” is just a grandstanding move on the part of a dick teacher. You seem to know an awful lot about the teacher’s motivations. Were you there to witness things? Do you know the teacher? Do you know the student? Sunday night, a young man from my first period class shot and killed another young man. It wasn’t, by any means, the first time one of my students has murdered (or attempted to murder) someone either. If you think teenagers can’t be dangerous, you’re an idiot. If you think they always communicate their feelings and intentions in a clear and direct manner, you’re an even bigger idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/62 "2006-05-11T15:05:34Z")
Only a fucking moron, like I said… ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/63 "2006-05-11T15:19:06Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > And: > > Mine eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school. > We have tortured every teacher, we have broken every rule. > We ransacked all the classrooms in the dirty rotten school. > And we don’t have to study anymore! > > Chorus > > Glory, glory hallelujah > Teacher hit me with a ruler > I opened up the door with a Colt 44 > And there ain’t no teacher anymore I learned yet a third version of this. The first two lines are unchanged, and then: "Now we’re marching down the study hall to hang the principal Our Class Is Marching On Glory, Glory halleluja Teacher hit me with a ruler So I hit her back with a rotten tangerine and we ain’t seen the old bat since." ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/64 "2006-05-11T15:32:22Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Only a fucking moron, like I said… How much experience do you have with teenagers, especially those with a history of problems? I’m willing to bet little or none. You’ll excuse me, therefore, if I consider your input on this topic to be valueless. You’ll be my go-to guy, though, if I’m ever in need of tips on how to be an arrogant, stupid, jerk-off. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/65 "2006-05-11T15:40:17Z")
I have a problem with that song… .44’s don’t fire “slugs”, a slug is a heavy rifled projectile fired from a _shotgun_, the rifling is on the slug, not the shotgun barrel, standard shotgun barrels are smoothbore, you can get special rifled “slug barrels” for shotguns, to impart a little more spin to the slug .44’s and other handguns fire _bullets_, the projectile is smooth and the _barrel_ of the firearm is rifled… …jeez, kid, get your facts straight 😉 as far as the “Glory, Glory Halleluia” song parody _we_ sung? “Glory, Glory Halleluia Teacher hit me with a ruler Met her at the bank with a U.S. Army Tank Now she don’t teach no more…” ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/66 "2006-05-11T21:10:42Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > …The Brat cops to a long running personality conflict between the two, where she admits being loud, aggressive and obnoxious, and faults the teacher for being passive…Or something like that. > > Reading between the lines, what we likely have hear is a disruptive student who pushed once too often. There was another article in the Atlanta Journal today. The more this teenage twit is quoted defending herself, the more I understand the teacher’s point of view. Not that she was threatening him, but that she probably did deserve to be suspended on grounds that she’s an ass. Today’s prize quote (which I paraphrase here) went something like “I won’t be back in his class after my suspension. The school says it’s because I threatened him, but I think it’s because he won’t admit he’s wrong”. Got any more gasoline to pour on the flames, Miss Innocence? ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/67 "2006-05-11T22:26:35Z")
Reflect that schools rarely call the news to say “Hey, we just suspended a kid.” That means that, whenever you see stories of unreasonable and unjust suspensions, they come from a parent’s description of what happened. Because children have a right to privacy regarding their school records, school officials will very likely decline to explain what, specifically, a child has done. So what you’re reading is what Mom says, which is going to be heavily biased. If a student, while trying to argue with me, started singing a kill-the-teacher song to my face, you’d better believe I’d interpret that as an attempt to threaten me, and whether it’s a real danger to me or just a try at intimidation, I will most certainly be writing them up for disciplinary action. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/68 "2006-05-11T23:54:36Z")
**Marley** , I will at least agree that there has certainly been a difference in the rules and their enforcement since Columbine. Personally, I abhor zero tolerance policies. They take away the discretion of the teachers and administrators and give no consideration to the circumstances and the individual student. That’s stupid and weak. Such a policy treats every student as if they are identical. They are not. Zero tolerance policies are for cowardly teachers, school boards and administrations who are afraid of standing up to parents and their attorneys. If the rule says, “Don’t curse the teacher,” then teachers and administrators should not have to explain to Student A why he was suspended for cursing a teacher and Student B was not. Suck it up. Agree or disagree? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/69 "2006-05-12T16:29:22Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Only a fucking moron, like I said… Well what do you think should have happened? A **16-year-old woman** is arguing with a teacher, doesn’t get satisfaction, and suddenly bursts into song. The song is about shooting the teacher. What do you think would be appropriate? As I said, she either needs to be suspended for making veiled threats, or she needs to go to a special school where there are others with IQs as low as hers. She would really have to be a clinical moron to think of singing that song in 11th freaking grade. Either way, she should never set foot in that classroom again. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/70 "2006-05-13T01:58:40Z")
I agree with everything you say about zero tolerance, **Zoe** , and it’s usually a bad policy in courts of law as well. > [@](#): > > If the rule says, “Don’t curse the teacher,” then teachers and administrators should not have to explain to Student A why he was suspended for cursing a teacher and Student B was not. Suck it up. > > Agree or disagree? Disagree. The parents and students of the school have a right to ask about the reasons for administrative action. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/71 "2006-05-13T02:14:33Z")
There are now two threads in the Pit about incidents in the Gwinnett County, Georgia school system (the other bing about the petition to ban Harry Potter). For the record, although it’s pretty stupid here, we still lag behind nearby Cobb County. Tomorrow, any of the 50 dogs left unadopted in their pound will be killed. TYou see, they need to clear the floor so it can be coated with sealant. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/72 "2006-05-13T02:28:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Disagree. The parents and students of the school have a right to ask about the reasons for administrative action. The parents and students of the school have a right to ask about administrative action only as it involves themselves – not other students. The students have a right to know the rules and the possible consequences of breaking those rules. They don’t have a right to know the details of administrative decisions regarding other students. That may not seem fair and I understand that. But it’s a matter of privacy. Teacher and principals have the right to use their discretion and weigh all factors _without revealing them to a third party._ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/73 "2006-05-13T02:49:22Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > The parents and students of the school have a right to ask about administrative action only as it involves themselves – not other students. Ah, that isn’t quite how I interpreted your question. Okay. I’d say they have a right to ask, but the school is correct not to disclose much information regarding other students. ---
**Author:** ![Chotii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Chotii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chotii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/74 "2006-05-13T07:38:20Z")
Overheard in a laundromat in Boise, ca. 1990. Child singing it was approx. 5th grade (Tune: This land is your land) This land is my land It isn’t your land I have a shotgun Right here in my hand If you don’t get off I’ll blow your head off This land is “private property”. I laughed a lot. And have never forgotten it. The version of the ‘Glory Hallelujah’ I learned went like this: Glory, glory hallelujah, Teacher hit me with the ruler Caught her at the door with a loaded .44 And teacher don’t teach no more …similar enough to other variants. I went to grade school in Las Vegas and a few places in California. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/75 "2006-05-17T03:50:24Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > see the Metro Gwinnett section for the 9th of May) where The Brat cops to a long running personality conflict between the two, where she admits being loud, aggressive and obnoxious, and faults the teacher for being passive…Or something like that. My goodness, that sounds like my Borderline Personality Disorder/Bipolar ex-girlfriend. She would frequently get loud and obnoxious and accuse me of being “passive”. Well geez, _one of us_ had to be … Anyhoo … Mine eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school We have tortured all the teachers, we have broken every rule We have shot the secretary, we have hung the principal The kids go marching on! Glory, glory hallelujah! Teacher hit me with a ruler Shot her in the attic with a German automatic (_or_Hit her in the bean with a rotten tangerine) And the teacher don’t teach no more And we always tagged the “five days later” thing onto the end: Five days later, floatin’ down the Delaware Chewin’ on her underwear Couldn’t afford another pair Five days later, farted on a grizzly bear Poor old grizzly bear died ---
**Author:** ![beebee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47774/32.png) [@beebee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beebee)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/76 "2006-05-17T06:28:48Z")
my boy got detention for playing arlo guthrie’s “coming into los angeles” on the bus. but he and his sister & friends were singing along. (note to self - remind kids not to play “the homecoming queen’s got a gun” at school) ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/77 "2006-05-17T11:57:43Z")
> [@Chotii](#): > > Overheard in a laundromat in Boise, ca. 1990. Child singing it was approx. 5th grade > > (Tune: This land is your land) > > This land is my land > It isn’t your land > I have a shotgun > Right here in my hand > If you don’t get off > I’ll blow your head off > This land is “private property”. > > I laughed a lot. And have never forgotten it. I remember it as: This land is my land, And it’s not your land. I’ve got a shotgun, And you don’t got one… I can confrim we were singing it as kids in 197[ahem]. I’m glad to see the classics are still around. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/78 "2006-05-17T17:17:52Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > I couldn’t have missed her. > She’s a hundred feet wide. > [something-something] died. Wasn’t it I did it for glory I did it with pride I couldn’t have missed her She was 40 feet wide. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/79 "2006-05-18T03:30:28Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > as far as the “Glory, Glory Halleluia” song parody _we_ sung? > > “Glory, Glory Halleluia > Teacher hit me with a ruler > Met her at the bank with a U.S. Army Tank > Now she don’t teach no more…” The version I learned used a _Russian_ Army Tank, for reasons known but to Og. My updated version uses an Abrams Battle Tank. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094/80 "2006-05-18T04:12:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Glory, glory hallelujah! > Teacher hit me with a ruler Now that I have taken a firm stand in favor of the teacher, I must confess… The first time that I heard those words, they began with “Mine eyes have seen the glory of the teacher sick in bed…” That was in 1953 in rural West Tennessee. It was enormously cathartic to hear these words fall from the lips of the ten year old geniuses in my classroom. What fun to avenge our fifth grade teacher! (She seemed to take it all in stride!) One of those squirts became a high school crush then moved away. Another became the Editor of the Law Review at Vanderbilt Law School. And another did still more. Don’t tell me times haven’t changed. Our parents wouldn’t have challenged that teacher. We lent her money to build her home and buy a farm. Times change, communities differ. Don’t project your ideal onto my reality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-zero-tolerance-bs-in-schools/356094.md?page=5)