# Morgenstern **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 14, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064 "2018-06-14T01:47:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/41 "2018-06-14T15:28:08Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, fuck you and your thread then. [Moderating] Don’t say “fuck you” to other posters. No warning issued. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/42 "2018-06-14T16:55:00Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s just that Morgenstern is cowardly, note he isn’t defending himself against Bone or the other folks who gave him a bit of a slapping/his own medicine in the Troll thread That’s because he is a bully. Bullies don’t like to fight people who are willing to fight back, they prefer to target people who they think are weak. This is what I suspect has lead to him claiming he has changed his views on sexism. The women are currently showing on this board that they are willing to fight back against the shit they are taking (which is great, and something I fully support BTW), so he is backing off and looking for easier prey. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/43 "2018-06-14T17:31:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Also, I know you’re at least pretending to try not to be such a sexist piece of shit–so, as a handy reminder, [“Hysteria” is a word with deeply misogynistic roots.](https://medium.com/@peacelovetrig/on-the-sexist-etimology-of-hysteria-and-what-academia-did-about-it-ef98815ddb6c) Don’t you think that’s kind of a reach? The vast majority of people really aren’t aware of that, or even if they are, really don’t use the word “hysterical” in a sexist manner. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/44 "2018-06-14T17:35:47Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Don’t you think that’s kind of a reach? The vast majority of people really aren’t aware of that, or even if they are, really don’t use the word “hysterical” in a sexist manner. “Reminder” might be a reach–consider it a vocabulary lesson, then. Some folks don’t give a shit about the history of the words they use, and will continue describing people as hysterical despite the word’s shitty origins. That’s on them. But at least if morgenstern decides to do so, he’ll do so from a place of knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/45 "2018-06-14T17:44:48Z")
I wonder did he ever get that PM? ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/46 "2018-06-14T18:49:47Z")
> [@Omnibus Trolls R Us Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/8310): > > This is the proper forum to discuss trolling? > I thought so. > I’d like to introduce you to a newly discovered form of trolling. \*\*Hysteria trolling. \*\*That’s trolling with a “wet your pants” level of panic and of course, little tantrums. > Hysteria trolling. > {snip} You poor thing. You going to be alright? Did you sleep well last night? Actually the proper place for self-admitted trolls is the one that has your name on it, so I brought it here for you. Not worth quoting the whole thing, it’s just a red-herring you’re throwing out, anyhow, so you can work on your persecution complex. Start with dropping that cross, it’s going to get awfully heavy if you want to play the martyr card. You know what you did, and you continue to do here and your other favorite place you like to cower, and if you really did apologize like in a public setting at the Dope since it was in public, you can point it out to us, because many long-timers are not familiar with it. This shouldn’t be too difficult for you to remember if you take one-tenth of an interest in your own life as you do others. While you’re on your new and improved charm offensive tour, maybe you can put down both your cross and your Don Rickle’s _How to Win Friends and Influence People_ and tell us a little bit more about yourself. Have any siblings, pets, is there a Mrs. Morgenstern? You’re among friends, I can assure you, we won’t use or do anything to you that you haven’t already done to anybody else. > [@Omnibus Trolls R Us Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/8312): > > Not Ed, he’s the victim… Of YOU! Wrapping your arms around Ed, isn’t going to save you, b/c I’m pretty sure, Ed…well, he’s tired of your shit too. Damn, you’re thick. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/47 "2018-06-14T18:56:11Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > That’s because he is a bully. Bullies don’t like to fight people who are willing to fight back, they prefer to target people who they think are weak. This is what I suspect has lead to him claiming he has changed his views on sexism. The women are currently showing on this board that they are willing to fight back against the shit they are taking (which is great, and something I fully support BTW), so he is backing off and looking for easier prey. I would put it slightly differently. I actually think that Morgenstern, whatever his other negatives, is rather capable at the insult game. In an evenly stacked situation, he would tend to do very well. But there are very few people who can “win” if the overwhelming majority are against them. So it’s not so much about “fighting back” per se. I think he can deal with targets fighting back. But what happened was that it became pretty clear - which Morgenstern did not initially appreciate - that in a fight where his position was that of a guy defending his right to make jokes about sharing women etc., that the overwhelming majority of the board’s posters would be firmly and angrily against him. That was a situation he was not prepared to deal with. So he bailed out and switched teams, hoping for a more comfortable situation where (he thought) he’d have the majority on his side. In a situation like that he was confident that he could deal with targets “fighting back” (and he’s right). Unfortunately for him, the majority did not take his side anyway. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/48 "2018-06-14T19:11:21Z")
And to build on what Fotheringay-Phipps is saying, Morgenstern’s main weapons aren’t necessarily even insults. It’s his persistence in shaping a narrative and his marginalization of his target(s). In order to do that he needs gullible or, more likely, complicit cohorts because a chorus of narrative shapers is is vastly more effective. Alienating the rest of the snark miners was counterproductive so he pivoted. With regards to “hysteria trolls” and this current attempt at reframing it seems to be the work of a mind that isn’t in a rational state. I’m not sure if it’s drug induced, bi-polar, or something. Whatever it is, I hope Morgenstern seeks the help he needs. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/49 "2018-06-14T21:51:30Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I actually think that Morgenstern, whatever his other negatives, is rather capable at the insult game. I agree, but I’m not sure why this doesn’t make him a bully. It I claimed that I was rather capable at the punching game, would that make me not a bully somehow? I think most would agree that it actually makes it more likely that I would be a bully than the alternative. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > So he bailed out and switched teams, hoping for a more comfortable situation where (he thought) he’d have the majority on his side. That is reason #1 I think he’s a bully. Being willing to insult someone only when you have a majority at your back is cowardice, and most bullies are cowards. When he got Bone-d in the troll thread, did he respond with insults to a person with power? Nope, he didn’t. Instead, he targets the less popular posters, knowing that he’s more likely to get away with it with them. To be honest, the fact that he switched teams so fast also causes me to doubt his sincerity. Mangy does like to call everyone he disagrees with a troll. Psychological projection is a thing, people do tend to paint their enemies with the worst parts of themselves. Now the troll part isn’t conclusive by any means, but I find it fits with the rest of the picture. YMMV. > [@octopus](#): > > Morgenstern’s main weapons aren’t necessarily even insults. It’s his persistence in shaping a narrative and his marginalization of his target(s). His repeated use of marginalization is reason #2 I’m calling him a bully instead of just a generic asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/50 "2018-06-14T22:03:00Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > I agree, but I’m not sure why this doesn’t make him a bully. It I claimed that I was rather capable at the punching game, would that make me not a bully somehow? I think most would agree that it actually makes it more likely that I would be a bully than the alternative. I wasn’t taking issue with your assertion that he’s a bully. My issue was with your suggestion that he “_don’t like to fight people who are willing to fight back, they prefer to target people who they think are weak_”. I think he would be OK with fighting someone who would fight back, consistent with him being a capable fighter. What he’s not OK with is fighting an entire crowd of people fighting back, which is a tough situation for even the most capable fighter. It’s tempting to think of bullies as such cowards that they are afraid to fight an “even fight”, but it’s not always true. But I certainly agree that he’s a bully in that he enjoys being in the situation where he’s (rhetorically) beating someone up, and actively looks for such interactions. Not sure the distinction above makes all that much difference in the grand scheme of things. But FWIW … ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/51 "2018-06-14T23:01:51Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And to build on what Fotheringay-Phipps is saying, Morgenstern’s main weapons aren’t necessarily even insults. It’s his persistence in shaping a narrative … Oh yadda yadda yadda bull motherfucking shit. Shaping a narrative. He shaped a narrative? I shaped a narrative a few minutes ago with my mighty ass muscles, but after I flushed it disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/52 "2018-06-14T23:40:25Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Oh yadda yadda yadda bull motherfucking shit. Shaping a narrative. He shaped a narrative? I shaped a narrative a few minutes ago with my mighty ass muscles, but after I flushed it disappeared. See Giraffe Behind your Back thread for his alternate take on reality. He ignores what he is afraid of and concentrates on repeating a lie. One day he might even become President. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/53 "2018-06-15T01:20:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I wasn’t taking issue with your assertion that he’s a bully. My issue was with your suggestion that he “_don’t like to fight people who are willing to fight back, they prefer to target people who they think are weak_”. I think he would be OK with fighting someone who would fight back, consistent with him being a capable fighter. What he’s not OK with is fighting an entire crowd of people fighting back, which is a tough situation for even the most capable fighter. > > It’s tempting to think of bullies as such cowards that they are afraid to fight an “even fight”, but it’s not always true. I perceive that bullies often prefer uneven fights, because they delight in intimidation. That doesn’t mean they won’t _accept_ even fights: Morgenstern is competent enough at his game to do either one. Let’s continue. Morgenstern likes picking on posters gratuitously, right? He likes stirring up shit, right? He’ll use any tool in his arsenal. If the mob doesn’t like trolling, he calls other people trolls. If the crowd is sick of sexism, he’ll join them. I mean if you delight in picking on people, why not go after the easy vic? Frankly the tell are in the recent ATMB threads. Normal people have a sense of when to knock it off. Normal people avoid hitting below the belt, or whatever the particular culture judges as off limits. Morgenstern has no such internal restraints. If there’s a homeless guy he wants to kick in the ribs, why not do it if you think you can get away with it, according to this perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/54 "2018-06-15T01:36:36Z")
Everybody knows that you don’t actually HAVE to read posts by people you don’t want to hear from, right? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/55 "2018-06-15T01:52:27Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Everybody knows that you don’t actually HAVE to read posts by people you don’t want to hear from, right? Wait, what? Do tell us more, manson. Agog. All of us. Agog. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/56 "2018-06-15T01:57:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Wait, what? Do tell us more, manson. **Agog. All of us. Agog.** Well, if it’s _all of us_, technically that would be “a bunch of gogs.” What’s the collective noun for a gathering of gogs? Unless… Is _gog_ the collective noun? So all of us collectively make up agog. But agog of _whats_? ETA: Hey, **andros** , don’t bothe-- D’Oh! He bothered. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/57 "2018-06-15T01:57:41Z")
I mean…are we _collectively_ a gog? Or would we be each individually a gog? Is it a collective noun? A murder of crows, a flock of seagulls, a gog of posters? . ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/58 "2018-06-15T02:06:21Z")
If you want to be a gog, then be a gog. Be a gog who just scrolls past people’s posts that you don’t want to read. Embrace your gog and move forward being the best gog you all can be. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/59 "2018-06-15T02:10:12Z")
Hope that clears things up for you, **LHoD**. ---
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064/60 "2018-06-15T14:26:32Z")
GOG SMASH!!! (sorry couldn’t resist) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morgenstern/816064.md?page=4)