# Mormon church: Joseph Smith married girls and other men's wives **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 27, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652 "2014-10-27T15:25:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/81 "2014-11-03T03:05:15Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > There are few monogamous women who complain that their middle-aged to senior husbands want to have sex too much; I wonder how these men found the energy and drive to service as many wives as frequently as they did. (I’ve seen pics- it wasn’t the erotic beauty of said women.) Sounds like another win for the [Coolidge effect.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolidge_effect) ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/82 "2014-11-03T17:23:35Z")
> [@BaldDudePeekskill](#): > > But why, Morgenstern? Simply because this isn’t the proper forum to properly respond to the OP, or you for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/83 "2014-11-03T17:29:32Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Emma has been alternately vilified and worshiped, her memory goes hand-in-hand with the view of polygamy of the era. Major thanks for that response! She’s long overdue for an unbiased novel or movie treatment. Looking up info on her second husband, he was unfaithful also and had an outside daughter during the marriage. Hopefully they worked through it- she deserved some peace. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Simply because this isn’t the proper forum to properly respond to the OP, or you for that matter. You can open a new thread in Great Debates if you like. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/84 "2014-11-03T19:57:03Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Sorry, but I don’t have the time, interest or patience to read that. The TLDR response is [mormonthink.com](http://mormonthink.com). They’ve got a good share of answers, all documented by Mormon sources. Somehow, I doubt you’ll visit there, though. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Simply because this isn’t the proper forum to properly respond to the OP, or you for that matter. I pretty much figured you would be hanging around despite what you had said. This was one of the hardest things for me to learn after leaving Mormonism. That one could simply say what they wanted to. > [@](#): > > Have a nice day. Oh, Stewardess, I speak Mormonese. It means “Well, well bless your heart.” in Southern Ladiese. > [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](#): > > Comedy gold! 😃 I do recall saying it would be fun, but since he’s dropped out, let’s settle for funny. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/85 "2014-11-03T20:17:33Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Major thanks for that response! > > She’s long overdue for an unbiased novel or movie treatment. > > Looking up info on her second husband, he was unfaithful also and had an outside daughter during the marriage. Hopefully they worked through it- she deserved some peace. My pleasure. I learned some from the research as well. You may be interested in a [transcript of some reporting](http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1419034)on Utah and the Mormons > [@](#): > > Mormondom - Fall 1868 - Just Before The Railroad Arrived > > Below you will find a set of six “Mormon Sketches” compiled by the noted 19th century, round-the-world correspondent, Charles Carleton Coffin (1823-1896). > > He was the last of the great investigative reporters to arrive in Salt Lake City, and to comment extensively upon the situation there, just prior to the coming of the transcontinental railroad to Utah. > > The result was a rare, detailed and insightful correspondence, sent to the \*Boston Journal \*by a careful and experienced reporter. Carleton got a few of his supposed “facts” wrong, but the overall quality of his pen “sketches” remains remarkably accurate and informative. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/86 "2014-11-03T20:31:25Z")
I’ve done a ton of research on Oscar Wilde’s 1882 tour of America for a play I work on/off/on again about his meeting with Jefferson Davis. Earlier that year he had met with Prophet/President John Taylor while in Salt Lake City. The two apparently got along quite well, perhaps not surprising since Wilde was an Anglo-Irishman discussing furniture and Taylor was an English furniture maker by birth and trade, plus by all accounts Wilde of course was charming. By one account Wilde was actually blindfolded and taken to an unknown location to meet Taylor since there were warrants out for his arrest at the time for practicing polygamy, but I can’t find this mentioned in official bios of either man. I’d love to know Wilde’s opinion of [Gardo House](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardo_House) (aka Amelia’s Palace), the garish 2nd Empire mansion Brigham Young built for Amelia Folsom that became home to the church presidents for a while thereafter\*. Wilde’s entire tour was giving lectures on art and aesthetics and interior decoration and I can’t imagine he wouldn’t have had strong opinions, but I can see him leaning either way on an Addams family mansion in the desert. \*Separating what was Young’s personal property from Church property took years and several lawsuits by and against his wives and children. Gardo was originally considered his private property, but Amelia Folsom pretty much voluntarily surrendered it for lesser digs, probably because even when a healthy pension the death of Brigham left her without the funds to maintain the place and have anything left over. (She was one of his childless wives also, so the place must have seemed particularly empty.) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/87 "2014-11-03T20:50:17Z")
From the [Salt Lake Tribune](http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/1764577-155/essay-church-joseph-polygamy-women-consider), an Op-ed by a faithful LDS feminist. > [@](#): > > I’m a believing Mormon woman with two young daughters. I’m also a psychologist with a Ph.D. from Brigham Young University. I’m encouraged by the church’s recent essay series on complex history issues and grateful for their progress toward transparency. > > The newest essay on polygamy explains that Joseph Smith was directed by God to take plural wives — including 14-year-olds — and encourages readers to learn from stories of women who obeyed in spite of their initial repulsion to the idea: “Like [polygamy’s] participants, we ‘see through a glass, darkly’ and are asked to walk by faith.” > > Because this essay will be available online and included teen curricula, I’m worried the good motives driving this essay might unintentionally lead to negative consequences. Here’s why: > > I’ve worked in a prison rehabilitating sex offenders. I’m well-versed in victim grooming patterns. These include establishing a relationship of trust (often with age/other authority), convincing victims that their proposal isn’t wrong, and afterward ensuring that victims remain silent. > > In 2009, a married seminary principal victimized a female student and promised to marry her. Elizabeth Smart’s abuser also comes to mind. I fear that official church sanctioning of this essay in its current form may unintentionally lead to more such cases. For those who replied that the news of Smith marriage to 14-year-olds was NBD, this is the reason is it. To be fair, without background information it would be hard to understand that with the limited information in either the OP or the article. Smith was a sexual predator who used his position as God’s prophet, the only man who held the keys to eternal life (see my earlier post) to groom victims. He started grooming one of the girls at age 12. These are just the ones we know of. He would use the victims’ families, the fathers or brothers, to convince the girls to marry him. This was the case for Mary Kimball, as her father was promised eternal salvation if he gave his daughter to Smith. She was given 24 hours to respond. This would be reprehensible behavior even for the times. On other occasions, he would tell a number of his victims that an angel from god had come with a drawn sword and had commanded him to restore the principle of polygamy or be destroyed. How the hell can a 14, 15 or 16-year-old girl supposed to handle the thought of being responsible for the end of God’s only true church just before the end of the world? Of course, what he wouldn’t tell them is that he had already “restored” the principle and they would be wife number 26. He went through a patten of approaching girls who worked a maids in their household or those he had taken in as foster children. On one occasion, he sent the widower father of children on a mission, and married the oldest girl. While the fact that polygamy was practiced is not news to most Mormons, it has been whitewashed. Note the resident Mormon poster who claimed it was to take care of widows “in many cases” or whatever the words. That of course, completely misses the supposed revelation which states it is only for women who are virgins. Smith polygamy has been actively hidden. Note my earlier post. On a survey of former members, this rewriting of history is given as one of the top reasons for disillusion with the church. The Mormon church is overly patriarchal, which leads to aiding and abiding abusive men. In Mormon theology, men are resurrected by the Lord calling them, whereas women are by their husbands. So, without a husband women couldn’t get eternal glory. There are some wiggle room where “it will be all sorted out in the afterlife” but this type of power allows horrible people to do horrible things. If the church has any sense of moral responsibility, they would do thinks to correct this level of issues, rather than get so upset if girls have a second set of piercing on their ears. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/88 "2014-11-03T20:55:42Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > \*Separating what was Young’s personal property from Church property took years and several lawsuits by and against his wives and children. Gardo was originally considered his private property, but Amelia Folsom pretty much voluntarily surrendered it for lesser digs, probably because even when a healthy pension the death of Brigham left her without the funds to maintain the place and have anything left over. (She was one of his childless wives also, so the place must have seemed particularly empty.) Ironically, one of the issues that Young had with Emma Smith was exactly the same problem. Young thought that the property should have been in the church’s name. Obviously, though, he learned his lesson well. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/89 "2014-11-09T20:30:50Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > cite please. > > cite please. > > cite please. > > cite please > You’ve tossed a lot of unsupported information out there, can you provide any evidence of these claims? As promised, I did come back with some cites. I’m not going to bother providing for all of them, because no one else cares that it wasn’t actually a revelation, and that the Word of Wisdom was simply based on a temperance movement at the time as well as some whacky theories floating around (which perhaps is where God gets the thing that tobacco is for treating sick cows (but doesn’t elaborate if they should be fed tobacco, used externally or allowed to spoke it)). I was listening to a podcast and it reminded me of the whole mess about Brigham Young and alcohol. He aggressively pushed out the competition, not only breweries and distilleries by outsiders but by other Mormons as well. While the lay members were starving, Young was doing very well. Smith was killed in 1844, and the group who followed Young went over to Utah in '47. Mormons were still expecting Jesus to return momentarily, and believed that converting and bringing together a bunch of people would help trigger the second coming. [open spoiler alert] Jesus didn’t come back by 1891, and thus there weren’t the predicted terrible calamities [/open spoiler] > [@](#): > > Brigham Young sincerely believed that faithful Latter-day Sints must seek refuge in Zion to avoid the horrors of the pending apocalypse that would soon ravage Babylon. He foresaw the last days as a “sermon that will be preached with fire and sword, tempests, earthquakes, hail, rain, > thunders and lightnings, and fearful destruction.” Early Mormon missionaries didn’t find that much success in the States, so they went over to Europe and preached among the poor. They had established a fund to pay for the people to emigrate to the States, allowing these people (including my ancestors) to actually have hope for escaping acute poverty. For the first several years, he people could borrow money from the fund and travel to the States by ship, then west to train to Iowa City and then travel by ox across the plains for 1,300 miles. All fine and well, but they were running out of money Brigham Young’s financial mismanagement combined with a crop disaster in 1855 wiped out their cash reserves. So, for 1856, they decided to have the people push handcarts instead of taking wagons. A companies got through but two left too late in the summer to make it through before the snows, the Willie and Martin companies, with about 1,000 between them. They ran out of food and got caught in the snows of Wyoming. Some historians put the death toll at about 300 people. Many people (including one of my great-great-great grandmothers) lost limbs, ears or even eyes to the cold. My ancestor lost both legs above the knees, but went on to be sent to a frontier farm in central Utah, raising a dozen kids. As Mormons, we grew up celebrating their courage and faith in God. What we had no idea is that while they were starving and dropping like flies, there was a wagon train pulling freight for Brigham Young in the area, including a steam engine (for no clear reason) and 1300 lbs of alcohol. The captain suggesting leaving most of the supplies in a fort over the winter but Young refused to permit that, insisting that this alcohol and the worthless engine be given a higher priority over the starving, dying elderly and children. While Salt Lake sent rescue parties out, it was news to me that the rescue parties were diverted to Young’s goods, including that all important alcohol, over the lives on the people. Here is a [good account of it](http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1057&context=mormonhistory). For most people, Mormons are simply quaint people who believe odd things, and wonder why I concern myself so much with it. It’s that most people don’t see the horrible, dark underside, with the terrible stories of suicide, depression and mental illness which always accompanies cults and semi-cults. Mormons try to hard to portray themselves as normal, but it’s as whacky as Scientology, and all the time, there is so much pressure to publicly state that you know it’s 100% true. In the 60s and 70s, while I was growing up, we had no idea that it was so fucked up. The church had done a remarkable job covering up all the rotten parts. It wasn’t until the internet that more and more of us are finding out the whole thing was a lie based on a young, charismatic, convicted conman who loved young girls. ---
**Author:** ![BaldDudePeekskill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@BaldDudePeekskill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaldDudePeekskill)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/90 "2014-11-10T17:55:10Z")
Looks like we lost Morgenstern… ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/91 "2014-11-11T05:21:44Z")
This is pretty much par for the course. Believe something outlandish because it’s taught in Sunday School, and “everyone” knows it; get indignant when someone points out that it’s incorrect; refuse to believe it; when provided with a cite from the church’s own sources then blink twice and say that “we’ve always taught that.” Just like the Stanford prison experiment showed that pretty much anyone can be conditioned into acting in certain behaviors given particular circumstances, I think most people would swallow even stranger beliefs if one is put into the right (or "wrong) environment. Unfortunately for the Mormon church, their monopoly on information which allowed the whitewashing to succeed has been broken. It’s not 1984 anymore. People can and are finding out information which challenges the basic tenants of the religion. The default mode when I was young was that the prophets were inspired by god and that they should always be trusted and blindly followed. That ain’t the case anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/92 "2014-11-11T06:16:30Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > I recalled the only chap who was shot for it, twenty years after, John D. Lee, because the **[wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Lee)** has a **[photograph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John_D._Lee_pre-execution_photo.png)** of him sitting on his coffin before being killed. > > Major Lee left 19 wives and 56 children. I’ve been watching Ken Burns’ _The West_ (subtitle: Five Hundred Years of Native Americans Taking it Right in the Ass") and they cover Mountain Meadows. At the end, they read the letter Lee wrote just before they executed him. It is fucking _blistering_. The whole thing is [here](http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resources/archives/six/lee.htm), but I quoted the best part: > [@](#): > > I studied to make this man’s [Brigham Young] will my pleasure for thirty years. See, now, what I have come to this day! > > I have been sacrificed in a cowardly, dastardly manner. I cannot help it. It is my last word – it is so. > > Evidence has been brought against me which is as false as the hinges of hell, and this evidence was wanted to sacrifice me. Sacrifice a man that has waited upon them, that has wandered and endured with them in the days of adversity, true from the beginnings of the Church! And I am now singled out and am sacrificed in this manner! What confidence can I have in such a man! I have none, and I don’t think my Father in heaven has any. > > Still, there are thousands of people in this Church that are honorable and good-hearted friends, and some of whom are near to my heart. There is a kind of living, magnetic influence which has come over the people, and I cannot compare it to anything else than the reptile that enamors its prey, till it captivates it, paralyzes it, and rushes it into the jaws of death. I cannot compare it to anything else. It is so, I know it, I am satisfied of it. This was a guy that used to be so close to Young that he was formally adopted by him! He really did not appreciate being thrown under the stagecoach by him. ---
**Author:** ![BaldDudePeekskill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@BaldDudePeekskill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaldDudePeekskill)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/93 "2014-11-11T18:57:49Z")
This is a cool link I remembered reading regarding the Word of “Wisdom” The cite comes from a Mormonism for Dummies website > **[dummies - Learning Made Easy](https://www.dummies.com/DummiesArticle/What-s-Not-on-the-Mormon-Menu.id-89759.html)** > > dummies transforms the hard-to-understand into easy-to-use to enable learners at every level to fuel their pursuit of professional and personal advancement. It seems that Emma, Joseph Smith’s first wife of many complained about having to clean up spitting tobacco juice and Smith banned tobacco and then coffee and tea to spite Emma and the Women’s Relief Society who were tea drinkers. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/94 "2014-11-11T22:12:15Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] This was a guy that used to be so close to Young that he was formally adopted by him! He really did not appreciate being thrown under the stagecoach by him. [/QUOTE] He was Young’s adopted son in spite of being only 11 years younger- it was almost Roman. Lee apparently believed in Mormonism enough that he was distressed when the church sent him notice (during his final days) that his wives were being taken from him and would not join him in heaven.) I’ve mentioned the Danites to Mormons before and had them assure me no such group ever existed except as a civil organization. I’ve also had them deny that Smith destroyed printing presses for publishing anti-Mormon tracts. I’ve wondered if this was ignorance or teaching. I really have wondered what it was that would make people like Brigham Young and Heber Kimball, who could read and write but had no formal education, actually read the Book of Mormon (assuming they did) and then pick up family and farm to follow Smith. Both became wealthy many years later but they went through years of poverty and struggle before they got there, and I’d love to know the appeal. (Of course Jesse Strang also had followers and his teachings were even loopier than Smith’s- at least Smith never proclaimed himself a king.) ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/95 "2014-11-11T23:49:12Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > … and I’d love to know the appeal. - “All the hot babes you can eat.”\* probably had something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/96 "2014-11-12T02:09:30Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > - “All the hot babes you can eat.”\* probably had something to do with it. You mean the Secret 14th Tenet of Faith really was “Stamp Out Virginity In Our Lifetime”? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/97 "2014-11-12T04:26:58Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’ve mentioned the Danites to Mormons before and had them assure me no such group ever existed except as a civil organization. I’ve also had them deny that Smith destroyed printing presses for publishing anti-Mormon tracts. I’ve wondered if this was ignorance or teaching. For me, the book by Elaine Pagels, _The Origin of Satan: How Christians Demonized Jews, Pagans, and Heretics_ really helped me understand my upbringing, where Mormonism stood in the center of the cosmic battle between good and evil. Where The World[sup]TM[/sup] was a horrible place and only Mormons and Mormonism stood between God and Lucifer and his followers. You guys were all bad, and the influence of The World could easily take us out. The forces of darkness were sitting around plotting how to catch, tempt and then devour our souls. We must be on guard 24/7 so that something innocent may not let us relax. Satan and his angels carefully lay snares in seemingly innocuous places. They spread viscous rumors and falsehoods about the Saints. They twist and distort facts in order the defeat God’s plan. The only thing you can believe is what is officially approved by the Church, whose sacred task is to prepare for the return of Christ with the imminent, apocalyptic battle between the forces of Good and those of Evil. You must choose one side. Do you stand on the side of God or the side of Satan? That’s pretty scary stuff to tell eight-year-olds. Anything not officially published by the Church is, by default, a lie designed by Satan himself to traps the hearts of the faithful in order to cause doubt to grow and endanger their eternal salvation, thus jeopardizing their chance to live with the family forever. You wouldn’t do that to your child, would you? The World cannot be trusted. Scholars are evil and tools of the Devil. Only the (sanitized) history of the church, as told by the church is correct. Everything else is a deliberate falsehood. Mormon church services are boring as hell. The super secret temple ceremonies are even worse. And it’s all on a third grade level. Imagine being told with straight faces that Santa is real. Even worse, you must tell people that Santa is real and shun anyone who suggests otherwise. People believe that shit. I frequent various Mormon-related boards including a few of the liberal ones where there is an interaction between ex-Mormons, Cultural Mormons and True Believing Mormons (TBM). It really is just like **Morgenstern** and his attack on **BaldDudePeekskill**. We were told a story which strongly implied that Joseph Smith was directed by God himself, to come up with this commandment, which no one else could possibly have thought up, and the Saints immediately started obeying it and no one has ever drunk alcohol since. Then you read them the official History of the Church, where it shows Smith, his brothers and others drank wine the day in jail they were shot, prove to them about Young and all that, and then you get TBM Stage II, which is seen in **Monty** ’s response. Oh, we never taught that. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I never heard of the Danites growing up, and I was one of the most serious followers. Where other mothers would entertain kids with stories of Santa, it was a non-stop Sunday School lesson in my household. I had heard about Smith and polygamy, but never, ever about polyandry. Or the Danites. We were explicitly taught that Smith and the early Saints were unjustly persecuted by the Devil’s handpicked followers who were attempting to thwart Jesus. Smith has be deified in Mormon lore to a level higher than some liberal Christan churches regard Christ. The redemption of people of this dispensation are dependent of Smith who usually gets more sermon time than God. Yes, Christ was necessary, but Smith commands the controls for now. This is a really long-winded explanation, but unless you understand the background, it’s hard to understand why Mormons don’t simply click on Wiki and read about their history. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/98 "2014-11-12T16:53:44Z")
Major and sincere thanks! I’ve found Mormonism and Mormon history fascinating since I was a small child, so all this is a great read to me. Is blood atonement known to most Mormons? And if so is it taught as something like the Satanic Verses or as a “sometimes Brigham got a little carried away when he was talking” or how exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/99 "2014-11-12T17:48:38Z")
Another ex-member here, throwing in my two senum. Too all those saying “what’s the big news?” The big news is that the church is admitting this much to their members. The standard in-house propaganda has, until now, tended to paint a portrait of Joseph Smith as a loving, devout husband to Emma and has totally ignored his other wives. When the “Teachings of Joseph Smith” Sunday school text came out a few years ago, it completely glossed over plural marriage. (Same with the first text in the series, which covered teachings of Brigham Young.) All members know that Young had several wives (though I’m sure many would be shocked to hear the actual number), but many tend to forget that Joseph also got busy, because it’s just something that never gets talked about. What does get talked about is how much Emma and Joseph loved each other and what a shining example their marriage is to all of us! I can see why the Church has finally felt the need to fess up to their members. The church has always discouraged its members from “looking beyond the mark” and digging too deep into issues that could shake their faith. But as has been pointed out by others up-thread, in this information age, they can no longer keep the members from finding out, and so it’s better for them to say “see, we got nothin’ to hide! Aint nothin’ to be ashamed of here!” I’m glad the church is finally coming around to acknowledging some of the shady parts of its history, but the article is still rather disappointing as it is clearly yet another attempt to explain away and gloss over some of the more uncomfortable points of Smith’s practice of plural marriage. The thing that really strikes me about the way the doctrine was presented is that it makes God out to be an utter arsehole. God gives us free agency, but then Joseph Smith says to Emma “God told me I’ve got to marry a bunch of other women or he’s going to DESROY me; and he said you’ve got the give me your consent or he’s going to DESTROY you too!!!” And then when Emma doesn’t go along with it, god says to Joseph “It’s cool bro; if she won’t give you her consent, that means you don’t need her consent!” Not cool Mormon God. Not cool at all. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652/100 "2014-11-12T17:51:20Z")
Also, my sincere thanks to all those who have posted links and information on what is some really fascinating history. Mormon history really is so much richer (and darker) that the fairytale versions taught in church meetings and textbooks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-church-joseph-smith-married-girls-and-other-mens-wives/702652.md?page=6)