# Mormon "missionary" work **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 12, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490 "2010-11-12T22:17:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dravin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dravin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dravin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/41 "2010-11-14T22:26:39Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Aw, it makes me sad to see people bashing the missionaries. I’ve had plenty of nice encounters with them, one only one negative one (dude was serious about telling me about Jesus and started following me; his partner had to follow him, and looked kind of embarrassed about it). They’re generally polite when you say you’re not interested and no harm’s done. I served with a couple of companions who were like that. I always had to resist the urge to slap them upside the back of the head. Same with those who ignored no solicitation signs based on the argument, “Well, we aren’t technically selling anything.” My stance was always that technically or not most of the folks who put those up are including us in their mind when they do so and a technical argument is not going to make friends and influence people. ---
**Author:** ![Jamicat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Jamicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamicat)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/42 "2010-11-14T22:34:46Z")
Moving to Utah…for missionary position. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/43 "2010-11-14T23:42:44Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I just saw a few of these lads, in my local library..how times have changed! > Gone are those cheap black slacks, with short sleeved white shirts (pocket protectors too)! > These guys were wearing Armani suits, with nice, conservative silk ties-looked like executive trainees. > They were using the library computers-hope they weren’t surfing the Web (instead of winning converts)! They still dress pretty badly in Australia, maybe it’s only the poor missionaries that get sent here? Most aussies are a cynical bunch and don’t really like a yank telling us that we are not worshipping God correctly, it can lead to some funny language issues. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/44 "2010-11-15T00:46:06Z")
Don’t get me started on what I think of the whole idea of sending people out to tell others that their religion is wrong and the one the missionaries are peddling is the only true one, but I will admit that I felt really bad for a pair I saw in Twin Falls once at Target. I mean, Twin Falls. Enough Mormons they’ve got a temple there. I have no idea who they are supposed to proselytize to down there. Imagine, you are a devout enough Mormon that you go on a mission, hoping to get sent somewhere cool, and you get…Twin Falls, Idaho. Yeah. Ouch. Meanwhile, I live a decent ways north of there and have been here three years and have never had any come by. I think they’ve decided that we’re all lost causes up here or something. Not that this bothers me in the slightest, but when I moved here, I expected to get bothered fairly regularly. Strange. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/45 "2010-11-15T00:59:00Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > Wearing only my boxers, I opened the door ready to give my roomie hell for disturbing my sleep. I was greeted by a young man and woman in their Sunday best… [snip] These were not LDS missionaries. They always work as a pair of men or a pair of women together, not one of each in a companionship. The only exception to this is older retired couples who are called to be missionaries as husband and wife, but in most cases these couples are not out knocking on doors, but serving in some other capacity. My bet would be that the ones who knocked on your door were Jehovah’s Witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/46 "2010-11-15T01:08:58Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Aw, it makes me sad to see people bashing the missionaries. I’ve had plenty of nice encounters with them, one only one negative one (dude was serious about telling me about Jesus and started following me; his partner had to follow him, and looked kind of embarrassed about it). They’re generally polite when you say you’re not interested and no harm’s done. > > I know several people who’ve served missions themselves, and they’re all nice and good people. Yes, I should have put a disclaimer on my earlier suggestion to discuss controversial topics with the missionaries. Really, it’s a nasty thing to do to a complete stranger, even if he ignored your No Solicitors sign. Here’s what’ll happen: You tell a missionary that you want to know more about Blood Atonement. He will have never heard of it, so he will schedule an appointment for tomorrow so he can look it up. He will look in his reference materials and find nothing. He may go to the library to use the Internet. Most likely, when he sees that all of the sites are anti-Mormon he will give up and skip your appointment. But just maybe he will read a bit and learn how evil Brigham Young’s god was. This will nag his conscience for a while, and he will need to learn more about his church’s history. Eventually he will tell the Mission President that he is not comfortable teaching people such a whitewashed version of Mormonism, and he will be sent home before his 2 years are done. All of his family and most of his friends in Utah will be very very disappointed with him. It is a huge social stigma to be sent home early. So he will be going home with no job, no friends, and a horrible relationship with his family. When he could have lived his whole life in blissful ignorance if not for you. After I unofficially left the LDS church, I still invited the missionaries over for dinner several times. I did my best to avoid talking about religion or LDS history with them, and instead showed them that even as an apostate I am still a normal, happy, moral guy who makes a mean crawfish etouffe. On their last visit, one missionary who particularly liked us (or liked my cooking- I’m not sure) asked about my impressive LDS history book collection. I told him the gist of the books without telling him anything that would make him question his faith. He was later transferred out of my neighborhood, and his companion did his best to avoid my wife when they met in a parking lot. Now that I have officially resigned, I can’t really feed the missionaries any more. It would send mixed signals if the LDS were forbidden from preaching to my family while I was still entertaining the missionaries as guests. ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/47 "2010-11-15T03:57:33Z")
> [@Bartman](#): > > Nice story **GiantRat**. 🙂 > But **Master Wang-Ka** still has the best [greeting missionaries story](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4600087&postcount=31). > > Anyway those probably weren’t LDS. Young Mormons don’t proselytize in mixed doubles. And their highly regimented schedules don’t have them leaving their homes until 10am. Here is the current morning schedule: > 6:30am - Arise, pray, exercise (30 minutes), and prepare for the day. > 7:30am - Breakfast. > 8:00am - Personal study: the Book of Mormon, other scriptures, doctrines of the missionary lessons, other chapters from Preach My Gospel, the Missionary Handbook, and the Missionary Health Guide. > 9:00am - Companion study: share what you have learned during personal study, prepare to teach, practice teaching, study chapters from Preach My Gospel, confirm plans for the day. > 10:00am - Begin proselyting. Missionaries learning a language study that language for an additional 30 to 60 minutes, including planning language learning activities to use during the day. > So you are unlikely to see Mormon missionaries before 10am at the earliest. They shouldn’t start annoying you until nearly lunchtime. You may be right (sorry, **rachellogram** , for quoting. 😉 I know they said they were Mormons, but the time could be off… I was in my mid-20s… and bars in NYC close at 4 (and some never close). It may have been later in the day, but it certainly _felt_ early. That story from **Master Wang-Ka** soundly trumps me… although I “trunk” it by having a penis involved. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/48 "2010-11-15T03:59:51Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > These were not LDS missionaries. They always work as a pair of men or a pair of women together, not one of each in a companionship. The only exception to this is older retired couples who are called to be missionaries as husband and wife, but in most cases these couples are not out knocking on doors, but serving in some other capacity. > > My bet would be that the ones who knocked on your door were Jehovah’s Witnesses. Could be… although they identified themselves as Mormons (I think). I’ve never been wrong… I thought I was once, but I was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/49 "2010-11-15T04:04:04Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > Could be… although they identified themselves as Mormons (I think). I’ve never been wrong… I thought I was once, but I was mistaken. Yeah, Mormons travel in pairs of two guys or two girls. According to my friend the female pairs have a 20 fold (!) higher recruitment rate than their male counterparts. My friend recruited/converted two people during his two years on mission. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/50 "2010-11-15T04:31:21Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > …According to my friend the female pairs have a 20 fold (!) higher recruitment rate than their male counterparts. Could be, but that’s not my experience. “Sisters” (female, age 21-22) were no more or less successful than “Elders” (male, age 19-20) in my mission. I’ll have to ask my wife when I get a chance, but she was in a particularly ripe country in South America and she’s never really bragged about her hundreds of converts. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/51 "2010-11-15T04:45:30Z")
> [@Dravin](#): > > 1. Young Man at the minimum age of 19\* (or Woman at minimum 21) wants to go on a Mission [it isn’t technically required but it is stressed though mostly for the men as a priesthood responsibility] and fills out paperwork and meets with local leaders. The difference is that women are expected to be married by 21, and those left over can go. At least that was the case while I was still Mormon. I don’t know if the women are holding out any longer these days. > [@](#): > > 1. The paperwork, with local leadership approval and endorsement of ability (such as health, fiscal [generally the missionary or friend or family pay the cost of the mission], and spiritual worthiness), goes to the Church’s HQ in SLC. No one actually gets cut unless they have had sex and then they have to go though a process of repentance. Back when I went on a mission, the support money came directly to the person, and the amount depended on the mission, with some missions very expensive, such as Tokyo and others much cheaper. Now, the church has gone to a world-wide standardized amount. Interesting though, only about one third of the money actually gets to the missionary, and many missionaries now are reporting they are not getting enough to eat. The idea is that members are supposed to be feeding the missionaries, but they don’t. Or at least not every evening, so missionaries go hungry. > [@](#): > > 1. Apostles (and I think other higher ranking authorities in tandem with an Apostle) receive the paperwork complete with included picture and receive revelation about where the missionary should go [I realize the board isn’t inclined to believe such actually happens but that is the process as believed by LDS]. There are 55,000 missionaries serving either 18 or 24 months, so there are some 30,000 applications per year. There are 12 apostles. The math isn’t so difficult to see why this scenario isn’t likely. Then there is a question if there is evidence for divine inspiration, outside of a feely-good “I _knew_ that I was supposed to go to Germany” thing which counts as evidence to many. The apostles and prophets have been unable to discern fakes such as [Mark Hoffman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hofmann) and [liars in their midst](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_H._Dunn), so one wonders how a god can be so busy proving guidance on something trivial as to where a person goes but fails to help with the bigger issues. According to workers in the Church Headquarters, the applications are simply dealt to whichever mission needs missionaries that week. There is a test to see if the applicant can handle learning a foreign language, but from missionaries I’ve seen, it must have taken a really bad score to get dropped from that. > [@](#): > > The idea as explained to me at least for not serving close to home is that as they are supposed to be away from family and friends and focus for the duration of the mission that being away from home helps that focus. Another way of putting this is called isolation. The actual reason is that there is a general rule that missionaries are not called to areas where they are from. It helps keep them out of trouble. Like other bureaucracies, the rules can take precedence over the “spirit of the law.” When I lived in southern Japan, there was member there who had just been called to serve in the local area. It turns out that he had gone up to Tokyo for school and put in his application from there so the rule that he wasn’t to be sent to his “home” area meant that he was sent outside of Tokyo, where he had only lived for a few months. There were 9 other missions in Japan, but he got called to his home area. > [@](#): > > You’ll find the idea that a missionary was called to a specific area, sometimes for one specific person or persons, to be fairly common, likewise with experiences to be. This is a part of the fallacy of confirmation bias. Because a missionary will click with one investigator, then it follows that he was “sent” there by God. If a person doesn’t do well, then it was because of not enough faith. God wins either way. For a perspective from some fellow ex-Mormons, see the podcast [http://www.irreligiosophy.com/?p=1380](http://www.irreligiosophy.com/?p=1380) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Punkyova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@The\_Punkyova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Punkyova)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/52 "2010-11-15T06:05:35Z")
The reason for sending missionaries away from home is the same as sending church youth groups to do charitable work away from home and young people to Bible camp - to get them out of their regular environment. Being out of their regular routine makes them more open to changes. When combined with a strict regimen of study as described above, it helps internalize the material. In addition, studies have shown that when people are asked to repeat things over and over, they come to believe it. More likely than not, the vast majority of missionaries are nice enough kids, not particularly religiously gung-ho, going out and doing what is expected of them culturally. They come home much more deeply convinced of the truth of their message, and are more likely to remain members and participants afterward. I suspect that the church knows exactly the difference in tithing and other activity between those who have served missions and those who haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Dravin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dravin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dravin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/53 "2010-11-15T08:37:17Z")
> [@](#): > > No one actually gets cut unless they have had sex and then they have to go though a process of repentance. People are rejected for health reasons, both physical and mental. I have no clue what the percentages are though, in my limited experience it isn’t exactly common though. > [@](#): > > There are 55,000 missionaries serving either 18 or 24 months, so there are some 30,000 applications per year. There are 12 apostles. The math isn’t so difficult to see why this scenario isn’t likely. Good point even paired up with some other partner the Apostles wouldn’t have the time to make all those decisions. > [@](#): > > Then there is a question if there is evidence for divine inspiration I don’t imagine there would be anything empirical. ---
**Author:** ![rayman5321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@rayman5321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayman5321)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/54 "2010-11-15T10:04:26Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > They still dress pretty badly in Australia, maybe it’s only the poor missionaries that get sent here? > > Most aussies are a cynical bunch and don’t really like a yank telling us that we are not worshipping God correctly, it can lead to some funny language issues. They still dress here as if they’ve stepped out of a 1965 J C Penney catalog. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/55 "2010-11-15T13:11:33Z")
> [@Dravin](#): > > Good point even paired up with some other > partner the Apostles wouldn’t have the time to make all those > decisions. Well, it would be God doing the decision and the apostles just getting the revelation? Except that there isn’t any evidence of apostles receiving any revelations about anything else. (See below.) So it leaves us with the answer to the OP. Simply, a nameless bureaucrat picks up an application off the top of a stack and drops in onto the Paris North Mission which needs another missionary that week. Not as sexy as a god directly leading a church, but in the absence of actual guidance, you do the best you can. > [@](#): > > > [@me](#): > > > > Then there is a question if there is evidence for divine > > inspiration > > I don’t imagine there would be anything > empirical. Yup. That seems to be the consensus. There simply isn’t any evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/56 "2010-11-15T14:40:06Z")
> [@The\_Punkyova](#): > > …When combined with a strict regimen of study as described above, it helps internalize the material. In addition, studies have shown that when people are asked to repeat things over and over, they come to believe it. Is there a name for this indoctrination method? When I describe it using the first word that comes to mind, it makes the Mormons all defensive and makes me look like a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/57 "2010-11-15T15:03:56Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > These were not LDS missionaries. They always work as a pair of men or a pair of women together, not one of each in a companionship. I was approached by a trio the other day. All young men. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/58 "2010-11-15T15:14:49Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > I was approached by a trio the other day. All young men. Not at all uncommon. They are usually in pairs, but never alone. So if there’s an odd number in an area, particularly during transfers, some will be in trios. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/59 "2010-11-15T18:56:14Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > And the Mormon priesthood is just a male church member, I think, not a priest in the Catholic sense. (I’m just remembering what was told me by a friend who tried to recruit me ages ago; I’m not an expert.) My family attended a Mormon church for a few years when I was a kid (we ultimately decided to remain Catholic) and I believe this is true. The terminology can be a little confusing. For example, a bishop in the LDS church is basically the equivalent of the parish priest or pastor in most other Christian denominations - he’s the head guy at the local church, but not any sort of regional authority like, say, a Catholic bishop. The LDS church’s rough equivalent to what the bishop would typically be in other denominations, I believe is called the Stake President - he’s the guy who oversees all the churches in a designated area. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490/60 "2010-11-15T18:59:40Z")
They come to my door all the time. They are always American’s. I think ‘missionaries’ is a huge misnomer, myself. They are recruiters, pure and simple. Missionaries build hospitals, feed the poor, house orphans etc. When at the university, I shared housing with all foreign students. One day I came home and found a copy of the book of mormon on the table. I discovered they’d come to the door and the foreign student’s, being unfamiliar with their ways, were polite and, bingo, books and further visits. I tried to stay out of it, telling them, ‘you started it, good luck getting it to stop!’. Within a couple of weeks they were begging me to make it stop. When I heard they were coming back with a projector to show a film, I decided I’d better act. We were three girls, and in a effort to deflect them, the room mates had played the ‘women as participants’ card. So, of course, when they came back, with the movie, they had a girl in tow. Of course, she sat in utter silence through a very lively discussion, as we tried to get them to shove off. Only speaking once, when prompted, to assure us women _were_ fairly treated, kind of hilarious. I was finally, outright blunt, bordering on rude, to get them to leave us all alone. They must have thought they’d hit the mother load. I forced their books back on them, and told them not to come back. They were back within a week. Again, they were told, don’t come back. A week later, there they were again. That time, cooking dinner, the stereo blaring, lights on, saw them through the peep hole and just didn’t answer the door! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-missionary-work/560490.md?page=4)