# Mormon underwear? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [December 19, 1999, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387 "1999-12-19T07:24:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bubba\_blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bubba\_blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bubba_blue)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 1999, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/1 "1999-12-19T07:24:00Z")
What’s the scoop on this? Must Mormons wear special underwear all the time, or is it only worn when entering the chapel/temple? [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mmormonwed.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mmormonwed.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Vahrenkamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@Bill\_Vahrenkamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Vahrenkamp)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 1999, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/2 "1999-12-20T07:42:00Z")
Mormons, Latter Day Saints as they prefer to be called, wear their garments all the time. For ladies it is worn closest to the skin. Garments first, bras and panty hose second. The garments for men are similar to boxer/briefs and a T-shirt. Ladies are also like boxer/briefs bottoms and a camisole type top. The garments have 4 special marks on them. A square and compass over each breast (think Masonic again). A mark like an unopened button hole over the belly button and the right knee. The meanings of the marks are explained at the endowment ceremony. After the washing and anointing is when the garments are put on and then the meaning explained. The history of the garment is when long underwear was worn all the time the marks were cut into the union suit underwear already being worn. They have evolved from the union suit, long sleeve, long leg, one piece to the two piece shorter garments that allow for long shorts to be worn. Some LDS tell stories of their ancestors never fully removing their garments. When bathing they would leave one ankle with the garments around them and put a clean pair on without ever being totally without garments. Yes, they may remove them for sports, swimming, bathing, consummating, etc. They are supposed to put a pair back on ASAP. They are supposed to keep them from harm. How do I know so much? I know for a fact that my ex-girlfriend, who went on a mission at 21, wore them daily. I saw the marks on them. Not from inappropriate behavior. * * * teke ---
**Author:** ![Bubba\_blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bubba\_blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bubba_blue)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/3 "1999-12-21T10:02:00Z")
You wear a camisole UNDER the bra??? EW!!! Chap city!!! ---
**Author:** ![FORMERAGENT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a3d4f5/32.png) [@FORMERAGENT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FORMERAGENT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/4 "2000-01-04T17:38:00Z")
AS A FORMER GOVERNMENT AGENT AND SPECIALIST ON RELIGIONS AND RELIGIONS THREATENING TO SOCIAL STABILITY, I CAN SAY FOR FACT… THE RELIGIOUS CEREMONIES AND BELIEFS YOU REFER TO AS CALIGULAN ARE IN FACT, CORRECT. SO LETS BE HONEST HERE PEOPLE, ITS NOT ALL SWEET AND NICE, AND JUST SECRET HANDSHAKING. MOST “SECRET CEREMONIES” ARE KEPT SO FOR REASONS, REASONS I HAVE SEEN. I HAVE BEEN WITNESS TO, THROUGH UNDERCOVER SURVEILLANCE, ABHORATIONS AGAINST HUMANITY, BY RELIGIONS, AND INDIVIDUALS, WHO ARE PROTECTED BY THE GOVERNMENT THEY WISH TO TOPPLE. I HAVE INFILTRATED AND INVESTIGATED MANY RELIGIOUS GROUPS AND ORGANIZATIONS FOR THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, LET ME BE THE FIRST TO SAY THAT MOST OF AMERICAS ENEMIES, ARE WITHIN IT, AND THAT MOST OF THE MORAL AND SOCIAL DECAY WE QUESTION TODAY, IS BROUGHT ABOUT BY OUR OWN CITIZENS, AND THERE INABILITY TO SEE RELIGIONS AND CULTS AS WHAT THEY ARE. THE BEST POLICY IS THIS, IF YOUR NEW FOUND RELIGION DOESNT WANT YOU TO ASK QUESTIONS, SEEKS LARGE SUMS OF CONTRIBUTION TO SAVE YOUR SOUL, OR KEEPS ANY ASPECT SECRET FROM THE PUBLIC, AND HAS NO ROOTS FOUNDED BEFORE THE 19TH CENTURY, ITS PROBABLY NOT A RELIGION… BUT A CULT. MUCH AS SCIENTOLOGY AND MORMONISM HAVE BECOME, CULTS THAT ARE VERY DECEPTIVE IN THEIR MARKETING, BUT VERY STRICT AND DIRECT IN THEIR TRUE UNDERLYING GOALS AND BELIEFS, AND EARNINGS STATEMENTS. PEOPLE, IF YOU QUESTION EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR LIVES, AND THE LAW, WHY NOT RESEARCH YOUR RELIGIONS AS WELL, FIND OUT WHO FOUNDED IT, WHEN AND WHO THEY WERE… HINT HINT L RON HUBBARD AND JOSEPH SMITH WERENT THE MOST RESPECTED NOR HONEST FOLKS OF THEIR TIMES, IT SEEMS OUTCASTS AND PATTERNED LIARS WOULD BE MAJOR UNDERSTATMENTS. FURTHERMORE, IT TAKES A GREAT DEAL TO BE A RELIGION THAT ATTRACTS GOVERNMENT ATTENTION. AS WELL PUBLICIZED AND HISTORICALLY KNOWN, THE MORMONS AND SCIENTOLOGISTS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN WAYWARD OF THE GOVERNMENT, AND ALL LAWS THEY DIDNT MAKE, (SEE BREAK-INS OF THE 70’S BY SCIENTOLOGISTS, AND THE EJECTION OF MORMONS TO UTAH… IN 1800’S) THINK MORE, FOLLOW BLINDLY LESS… FORMER GOVERNMENT SPECIAL AGENT ## MICHAEL TO HAVE WORKED FOR THE GOVERNMENT WAS NO WORK AT ALL,TO REFORM AND REBUILD THE GOVERNMENT, THEREIN LIES THE CHALLENGE. ---
**Author:** ![dlv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dlv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dlv)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2000, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/5 "2000-01-05T06:00:00Z")
Please toggle your Caps Lock key. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Snark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Snark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2000, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/6 "2000-01-05T09:36:00Z")
FORMERAGENT wrote: > [@](#): > > THE BEST POLICY IS THIS, IF YOUR NEW FOUND RELIGION DOESNT WANT YOU TO ASK QUESTIONS, The LDS church encourages people to ask questions and find out for themselves whether it teaches correct doctrine or not. > [@](#): > > SEEKS LARGE SUMS OF CONTRIBUTION TO SAVE YOUR SOUL, Ever hear of the law of tithing? Check out the last book of the Old Testament, Malachi. If you’re going to accuse the LDS religion of “seek[ing] large sums of contribution,” you have to accuse the Bible as preaching the same doctrine. > [@](#): > > OR KEEPS ANY ASPECT SECRET FROM THE PUBLIC, AND HAS NO ROOTS FOUNDED BEFORE THE 19TH CENTURY, ITS PROBABLY NOT A RELIGION… BUT A CULT. MUCH AS SCIENTOLOGY AND MORMONISM HAVE BECOME I won’t argue with you about Scientology, but when did you come to the conclusion that the 19th Century was the deadline for religions to spring up? That’s quite arbitrary, don’t you think? * * * “What I tell you three times is true.” Lewis Carroll, _The Hunting of the Snark_ ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2000, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/7 "2000-01-05T13:51:00Z")
FORMERAGENT says: \<\< OR KEEPS ANY ASPECT SECRET FROM THE PUBLIC, AND HAS NO ROOTS FOUNDED BEFORE THE 19TH CENTURY, ITS PROBABLY NOT A RELIGION… BUT A CULT. \>\> You might want to check out what the loyal Straight Dope Science Advisory Staff (in the person of Eutychus) had to say about: [What’s the difference between a church and a cult?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcult.html) I don’t think the 19th Century came into play at all. BTW, in fairness, FORMERAGENT does say that his criterion is that the “roots” are founded before the 19th Century. I think that most LDS would say that their “roots” are the Judeo-Christian tradition, founded when the Israelites assembled at Mount Sinai. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2000, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/8 "2000-01-06T06:51:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I think that most LDS would say that their “roots” are the Judeo-Christian tradition, founded when the Israelites assembled at Mount Sinai. I’m not sure that’s completely so. There is, after all, the considerable mythology of the \*Book of Mormon[/i} to be considered. But, as I have remarked before, I personally feel that the fact that the BoM is a manifest 19th-century forgery pretty much exhausts my interest. * * * John W. Kennedy “Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.” – Charles Williams ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2000, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/9 "2000-01-05T19:45:00Z")
Well, heck, by that reckoning, the book of Deuteronomy was probably a forgery too. (It was “discovered” hidden behind the throne of some Isrealite king who came along long after King David.) ---
**Author:** ![torq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@torq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torq)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2000, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/10 "2000-01-05T19:54:00Z")
I was never a Mormon, but I was once a member of the REORGANIZED Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (I probably still am, on paper, as I’ve never actually formally told them to remove me from the rolls). In one class I attended on the subject, the term “The Great Apostasy” was used to describe the 19th and 20th Centuries, when many new sects were founded or splintered off from other sects. I don’t know if this is common parlance or not, but the basic concept is probably related to the arbitrary dividing line of the 19th century given above. However, the RLDS at least, and presumably the Mormons also, do not regard themselves as a part of this, but rather a reestablishment of the One True Church started by Christ Himself. By the way, while I was never a particularly devout member, as far as I know the RLDS does not have any doctrine similar to the concept of the “garment”. In general, they’re more like a mainstream Christian denomination than the LDS is, though they do use the Book of Mormon as scripture. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2000, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/11 "2000-01-06T02:02:00Z")
Oh goody, this sounds like fun! From Eutychus and the SDSTAFF article: > [@](#): > > [Cults] > A: center around a specific charismatic leader or personality Like maybe Jesus? > [@](#): > > and/or > > B: center around a traditional religion with certain specific doctrinal deviations. Pretty much any christian denomination. > [@](#): > > The website of The American Family Foundation ([http://www.csj.org/index.htm](http://www.csj.org/index.htm)) gives us some good guidelines to go by. > Dangerous cults might exhibit some of the following characteristics : > > a: preoccupation with bringing in new members and making money Preoccupation with saving people. Who could that apply to? > [@](#): > > b: discouragement or punishment for any doubt or questioning of authority Christian churches are good at this one. > [@](#): > > c: a polarized “us vs. them” mindset Again, I can think of many christians here. > [@](#): > > d: leadership is not accountable to any authority, either financially or morally Does the Pope count? RC church sounds suspicious. > [@](#): > > e: belief that “the ends justify the means” and readiness to use unethical means to achieve their goals Okay, that one can pass. > [@](#): > > f: requiring members to socialize only with members of the cult Depends on the extremes required. Doesn’t the Bible encourage christians to congregate only with other christians? > [@](#): > > g: in more extreme cases, requiring members to cut ties completely with family or the outside community That one also passes. I think it’s really not very helpful to argue over “cult vs. religion”. One person’s cult is another’s religion. Instead, emphasize the practices or characteristics that are unhealthy or otherwise dangerous, and let the labels fend for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2000, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/12 "2000-01-06T17:21:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, heck, by that reckoning, the book of Deuteronomy was probably a forgery too. (It was “discovered” hidden behind the throne of some Isrealite king who came along long after King David.) Actually, we don’t know that. 2 Kings says that _a_ book was discovered in the reign of King Josiah. The usual modern interpretation is that it is referring to Deuteronomy. But even if it were known to be true, that would not necessarily prove that it was a composition of King Josiah’s time. Linguistic concerns may do so – I am ignorant on that point – but even that can be shown to be the case, that does not prove that there was no authentic tradition underlying it. Joseph Smith, on the other hand, leaves himself no way out. He says in so many words that he was given the text of the _Book of Mormon_ by an angel, and that he was also given miraculous glasses to translate it with. If, therefore, the _Book of Mormon_ is a forgery (which it provably is), then the entire structure falls to pieces. * * * John W. Kennedy “Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.” – Charles Williams ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2000, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormon-underwear/1387/13 "2000-01-06T19:38:00Z")
And exactly how does this relate to the garments (“holy underwear”), JK?