# Mormons aren't Mormons anymore **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 18, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822 "2018-08-18T06:11:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/21 "2018-08-18T18:59:18Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Maybe they think they can fool dyslexics into believing that attending church is a trip. Maybe they can rewrite the song as “Lucy in the Diamond Sky?” > And do they need to recall and rename the book? They’re saying no more LDS either, that it must be laboriously spelled out every time. ---
**Author:** ![JWT\_Kottekoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@JWT\_Kottekoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWT_Kottekoe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/22 "2018-08-18T19:28:54Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > AIUI, they think too many people don’t consider them a real Christian church, so they want to get the jesus christ part of the name out in front. Exactly. They don’t want Mormon or LDS. The long form is unchanged, the short form is “Church of Jesus Christ”. They want people to know they are followers of Jesus Christ, because certain other Christians won’t call them Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/23 "2018-08-18T19:33:13Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Maybe they think they can fool dyslexics into believing that attending church is a trip. Maybe they can rewrite the song as “Lucy in the Diamond Sky?” > And do they need to recall and rename the book? That’s easy; “The Book of Contrived Poppycock By Inveterate Fabulator Joseph Smith”. I know it seems complicated at first but it rolls off the tongue with surprising ease after a little practice. > [@JWT\_Kottekoe](#): > > Exactly. They don’t want Mormon or LDS. The long form is unchanged, the short form is “Church of Jesus Christ”. They want people to know they are followers of Jesus Christ, because certain other Christians won’t call them Christian. Maybe they should just refer to themselves as “Post-Protestant Christians”, or alternatively, “Jehovah’s Witnesses Lite”. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/24 "2018-08-18T20:19:21Z")
We could call it “The Church Formerly Known as Mormons”. Or… Lutherans are named after Martin Luther. Calvinists are named after John Calvin. Amish are named after Jakob Ammann. So maybe LDS members could be known as Smithereens. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/25 "2018-08-18T20:20:14Z")
> [@JWT\_Kottekoe](#): > > They don’t want Mormon or LDS. If you Google “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”, the top 3 hits are Wikipedia, **[lds.org](http://lds.org)** and **[mormon.org](http://mormon.org)**. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/26 "2018-08-18T20:30:34Z")
Would newspapers, like the NYT, honor that request? That is, will the style guide recommend using “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” instead of “Mormon” or even “LDS”? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/27 "2018-08-18T20:52:30Z")
Somehow I doubt it. _• Refer to “the Church,” the “Church of Jesus Christ” or the “restored Church of Jesus Christ” in shortened or subsequent references._ Sounds like they are making a play to be “The Church,” an appellation that has belonged to Roman Catholicism for the last 2000 years. It isn’t going to fly, not before, not now, not ever. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/28 "2018-08-18T20:53:06Z")
Why do they bury Mormons 12 feet deep? Because _deep down_, they are good people.:D:p But seriously, one thing about their missionaries, they are not hypocrites. My neighbor, a older man was cleaning his gutters, when they came by. They asked if there was anything they could do, and he said, half in joking “Yeah, clean out these damn gutters for me”. And they rolled up their sleeves and did it. I have heard similar stories. So no, I don’t like the precepts of their church, but I do give admiration to religious people who aren’t hypocrites. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/29 "2018-08-18T21:04:50Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Sounds like they are making a play to be “The Church,” an appellation that has belonged to Roman Catholicism for the last 2000 years. Cite? The meaning of “The Church” would depend entirely on context to me. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/30 "2018-08-18T21:27:16Z")
I believe there is a point there, **Riemann** , in that the Catholic Apostolic Christian Church, Roman Communion, has been referring to itself as just plain “The Church” since, well, Roman times and yet we \*\*\*still \*\*\*have to specify which one. Yeah, for a while the COJCOLDS seemed to be going for the “let’s reclaim this expression and make it ours” route, which is to me seemed a good tack to take, and now they’ve turned around again. Now with this… there may be as mentioned the concern that what with a reinvigorated “Christian” Right around, they may want to make it perfectly clear where they stand (not that some of the Christian Right would give a damn, they don’t even count Catholics, for cryin’out loud). But also, who knows, there may be also a sense that the times having changed and there having been a greater sociocultural move to accept the “call people what \*they \*want to be called” norm, empowers them to demand that the outsiders’ shorthand be avoided. As in, before it was inevitable that people would use it so let’s adapt and try to turn it positive; now, maybe we can finally convince people to not use it. But I expect that even with the best of intentions, outsiders will NOT abbreviate to just “The Church of Jesus Christ” (BTW are they going to do an Ohio State and demand that “the” be emphasized?)\* because that’s too nonspecific\*. There’s a pile of denominations claiming to be that. Outsiders will at best abreviate to “Latter Day Saints” because _that’s what’s different_. I suppose from their point of view it’s an imprecision like Muslims being called Mohameddans. Part of the matter, is that the scripture IS called “Book of Mormon” after a character therein. So the name will be forever associated with the religion no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/31 "2018-08-18T22:21:43Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I believe there is a point there, **Riemann** , in that the Catholic Apostolic Christian Church, Roman Communion, has been referring to itself as just plain “The Church” since, well, Roman times and yet we \*\*\*still \*\*\*have to specify which one. Well, if the _context_ is the RC church talking about itself, or Catholics talking among themselves, then obviously they would just say “The Church”, without qualification. It would be strange to say “The Catholic Church” if you’re all Catholics talking about your church. I don’t think the usage implies that anyone is trying to lay claim to the expression. It’s no different from just saying “the house” when you are talking you your spouse about the family home. Out of context I don’t think “The Church” implies any particular Church - in fact, I think it would be odd to just say “The Church” without qualification unless the context makes clear what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/32 "2018-08-18T23:18:15Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > They’re saying no more LDS either, that it must be laboriously spelled out every time. Oh, they’ve cornered the ink market, have they? (That’s what I get from reading only the title.) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/33 "2018-08-18T23:20:52Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Yeah, for a while the COJCOLDS seemed to be going for the “let’s reclaim this expression and make it ours” route, which is to me seemed a good tack to take, and now they’ve turned around again. COJCOLDS? Isn’t that a Stephen King book? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/34 "2018-08-18T23:20:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why do they bury Mormons 12 feet deep? > > Because _deep down_, they are good people.:D:p > > But seriously, one thing about their missionaries, they are not hypocrites. > > My neighbor, a older man was cleaning his gutters, when they came by. They asked if there was anything they could do, and he said, half in joking “Yeah, clean out these damn gutters for me”. And they rolled up their sleeves and did it. I have heard similar stories. > > So no, I don’t like the precepts of their church, but I do give admiration to religious people who aren’t hypocrites. That they are not afraid to work hard, does not make them honest. We can say someone is honest AND hard-working, exactly because those are separate things. If they are religious hypocrites who work hard, well, halfway there is better than nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/35 "2018-08-18T23:23:36Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > That’s easy; “The Book of Contrived Poppycock By Inveterate Fabulator Joseph Smith”. I know it seems complicated at first but it rolls off the tongue with surprising ease after a little practice. > > Stranger My daughter got a copy when she hung out with Mormons, uh, LDSers, uh yadda-yaddaers in junior high. Her conclusion was that they were nice but nuts. I’ve got to put it in my SF collection some time along with the standard Bible. But then I’d have to read it, and I understand Mark Twain gave it a bad review. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/36 "2018-08-18T23:33:06Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > I always got the impression that some detractors did use “Mormon” pejoratively, and for that reason “LDS” was preferable. Was this ever true? Back in the 60s and 70s when I was growing up, we were definitely “Mormon.” There was no question the we identified and accepted that name. There have always been detractors to the Church (as Mormons refer to their organization) and they use that term as it’s the one most recognized or for us former members, the one we used to self identify. However, according to speculation the idea is more for two other reasons. First is that since I left (although not my fault!) the Church has attempted to become more mainstream and wants to be seen as a “normal” Christian faith. Many evangelical Christians see Mormons as not Christian, so the thought is that rebranding would help. The second is that the Church wants to distance itself from the greater Mormon movement which includes fundamentalist Mormons who practice polygamy. In the last major push for this in 2001, they still accepted the term “LDS” but this time they want people to use the entire name in full. Good luck with that. There in a new prophet this year and there is always hope for new messages from God. So maybe this is the awaited new Word. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/37 "2018-08-18T23:35:59Z")
The name change in the past and I assume now is because they primarily recruit from unattached Christians. When you say you’re Mormon, many people already are turned off for obvious reasons. When you say you want them to go to your Church of Jesus Christ, they think you’re a non-denom. It’s the same strategy that Scientologists use. They don’t ask you to join Scientology, they ask you to join a self-help group or to take a personality assessment. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/38 "2018-08-18T23:49:39Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > There in a new prophet this year and there is always hope for new messages from God. Phase 1 Collect magic underwear Phase 2 ? Phase 3 Prophet! ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/39 "2018-08-18T23:52:01Z")
The prophecy came at a time when [#ProtectLDSChildren](http://protectldschildren.org/) started trending; not to mention they’d rather not be associated w/ the [MormonLeaks website](https://mormonleaks.io/), not even in name. Can’t have an investigator stumble on hard evidence of hypocrisies before they’ve gotten baptized. The man who’s [hunger striking to stop the sexually explicit child interviews](http://protectldschildren.org/hunger-strike-and-spotlight/) entered his third week just as they made the announcement; now everyone in Utah’s distracted by the ridiculousness and far-reaching name changes that would be required to comply w/ the church’s rules. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/40 "2018-08-18T23:53:40Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > … maybe this is the awaited new Word. Grease is the Word (is the Word, is the Word). 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822.md?page=3)