# Mormons aren't Mormons anymore **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 18, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822 "2018-08-18T06:11:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/41 "2018-08-19T00:12:12Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > My daughter got a copy when she hung out with Mormons, uh, LDSers, uh yadda-yaddaers in junior high. Her conclusion was that they were nice but nuts. > > I’ve got to put it in my SF collection some time along with the standard Bible. But then I’d have to read it, and I understand Mark Twain gave it a bad review. I have read a random-ish sample of it, more than 50 pages. As far as style, it is exactly like the stuff people write when they want to make fun of “Bible talk” - gratuitous Thees and Thous; using old verb forms like hadst and wouldst without understanding how they work and therefore getting the grammar mostly wrong; and broken, nonsensical, pseudo-olde-timey sentence structure. As far as content, well, imagine a green young wannabe sci-fi/fantasy author (emphasis on the wannabe and fantasy parts), 24 years old, in the early 19th century, deciding to invent a new religion that sounds vaguely biblical but is pretty strict about “Made In America”, except for the part about its ancient Egyptian origins. Because, well, that’s what it is. It’s a 19th-century fantasy novel written entirely in “fake Bible talk”. Thou better believe thou it, yea, unto the uttermost, the real real uttermost, better thou it believing unto. Yea and verily. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/42 "2018-08-19T01:17:47Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > As far as content, well, imagine a green young wannabe sci-fi/fantasy author (emphasis on the wannabe and fantasy parts), 24 years old, in the early 19th century, deciding to invent a new religion that sounds vaguely biblical but is pretty strict about “Made In America”, except for the part about its ancient Egyptian origins. ”They may be pink, but their money is still green.” —J. R. ‘Bob’ Dobbs Stranger ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/43 "2018-08-19T01:45:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Would newspapers, like the NYT, honor that request? That is, will the style guide recommend using “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” instead of “Mormon” or even “LDS”? Maybe the church just wants to stay out of the headlines. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/44 "2018-08-19T01:46:41Z")
Seems that in a world full of suffering this is a foolish waste of time. Besides, rebadging simply causes confusion. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/45 "2018-08-19T02:06:28Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Seems that in a world full of suffering this is a foolish waste of time. Besides, rebadging simply causes confusion. Confusion and obfuscation is precisely the Mormons’ goal. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/46 "2018-08-19T02:13:26Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > ”They may be pink, but their money is still green.” —J. R. ‘Bob’ Dobbs You see, now \*there \*is a credible religious founding figure. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/47 "2018-08-19T08:28:46Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > The name change in the past and I assume now is because they primarily recruit from unattached Christians. When you say you’re Mormon, many people already are turned off for obvious reasons. When you say you want them to go to your Church of Jesus Christ, they think you’re a **non-denom**. I read that initially as “non-demon”… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/48 "2018-08-19T08:44:54Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > As far as content, well, imagine a green young wannabe sci-fi/fantasy author (emphasis on the wannabe and fantasy parts), 24 years old, in the early 19th century, deciding to invent a new religion that sounds vaguely biblical but is pretty strict about “Made In America”, except for the part about its ancient Egyptian origins. [Why, it’s almost as if you could turn it into a TV space opera.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/49 "2018-08-19T08:53:52Z")
It sounds like this is a particular hobby horse of President Nelson, so it won’t last more than (checks actuarial table) three years or so. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/50 "2018-08-19T09:10:09Z")
> [@skdo23](#): > > I know they can’t dance. Wait, that’s the Amish! No, you had it right the first time. The Amish _aren’t allowed to_ dance. Mormons _can’t_ dance. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/51 "2018-08-19T10:37:09Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Because, well, that’s what it is. It’s a 19th-century fantasy novel written entirely in “fake Bible talk”. Thou better believe thou it, yea, unto the uttermost, the real real uttermost, better thou it believing unto. Yea and verily. Although I had been extremely devout up through early high school, I had never actually read the Book of Mormon other than reading verses in church. When I went on a mission, I decided to finally really read it. I simply could not shake the feeling that it was Bible fan fiction. That was one of the final nails in the coffin for me. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Mormons _can’t_ dance. 😃 Sadly, ex-Mormons don’t get any better! ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/52 "2018-08-19T12:49:40Z")
I tried to read the Book of Mormon once. After about a million repeats of “and it came to pass” I did take a pass and quit reading. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/53 "2018-08-19T13:26:41Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I tried to read the Book of Mormon once. After about a million repeats of “and it came to pass” I did take a pass and quit reading. That was my experience earlier this year. I tried; I really did. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/54 "2018-08-19T13:42:46Z")
I thought you’d all get a chuckle out of this headline: [Stop calling us ‘Mormons’ or using ‘LDS’ abbreviation, says leader of Mormon Church](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/religion/stop-calling-us-mormons-or-using-lds-abbreviation-says-leader-of-mormon-church/wcm/5c0587dc-9caa-4776-b28d-fe4c7e4bf1ba) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/55 "2018-08-19T16:20:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > My daughter got a copy when she hung out with Mormons, uh, LDSers, uh yadda-yaddaers in junior high. Her conclusion was that they were nice but nuts. > > I’ve got to put it in my SF collection some time along with the standard Bible. But then I’d have to read it, and I understand Mark Twain gave it a bad review. SF seems a weird place for those books. Wouldn’t fantasy make more sense? (Or mythology if you have enough books for a separate section.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/56 "2018-08-19T16:22:14Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I tried to read the Book of Mormon once. After about a million repeats of “and it came to pass” I did take a pass and quit reading. Always makes me think of [this gem of KJV theology](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y1RcUWVbeE) (video). ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/57 "2018-08-19T17:03:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > SF seems a weird place for those books. Wouldn’t fantasy make more sense? (Or mythology if you have enough books for a separate section.) Well, there is the common Mormon–sorry, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints-ian–belief that the Saved will ascend to the planet Kolob which is nearest to Heaven in the Celestical Kingdom, so that’s pretty science-fiction-y. The CJCLDS claims that it is not official doctrine, but since Brigham Young among other authorities in the church hierarchy espoused literal belief in it and it is referenced in the _Book of Abraham_, it’s kind of difficult to say it isn’t a a part of Mormon belief. I don’t actually think that Mormonism is any more fake than any other religion, none of which have a shred of actual objective evidence to substantiate the idea of a supernatural creator, an afterlife, angels and seraphs, or any of the other fictions of religions; it is just more obviously fabricated than most religions, largely by dint of the relative newness of its traditions and the amateur writing of its texts, plus the history of Joseph Smith as a known prevaricator who grew up during a period and location of Adventism and Restorationism. It’s traditions of false scholarship, and in particular the archeological expeditions to Mexico to substantiate purported prior societies, are demonstrably counterfactual, but then the Catholic Church had to abandon its entire view of cosmology and natural history with the advent of modern astronomy, paleontology, and modern evolutionary synthesis, which it did with great reluctance and comical equivocation. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/58 "2018-08-19T17:35:40Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > [Stop calling us ‘Mormons’ or using ‘LDS’ abbreviation, says leader of Mormon Church](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/religion/stop-calling-us-mormons-or-using-lds-abbreviation-says-leader-of-mormon-church/wcm/5c0587dc-9caa-4776-b28d-fe4c7e4bf1ba) It’s going to be an uphill battle. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/59 "2018-08-19T21:24:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > SF seems a weird place for those books. Wouldn’t fantasy make more sense? (Or mythology if you have enough books for a separate section.) SF stands for Sorry Fantasy also. 🙂 I keep everything combined, since it is too hard to distinguish the border cases. My Bible (filed under G for God, house pseudonym) is not that far from Towing Jehovah. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/60 "2018-08-19T21:28:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s going to be an uphill battle. The Times article today says their style guide is not going to change, so the LDSers will still be Mormons. More believable than any revelation from any supposed god. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822.md?page=4)