# Mormons aren't Mormons anymore **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 18, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822 "2018-08-18T06:11:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/61 "2018-08-19T22:51:07Z")
This is indeed an odd move. If it’s an attempt to get other Christians to admit that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (\*) is the one true church of Christ, and the others heretics, well, good luck with that. IME that would be surprising - they seem to have been trying to find common ground with the rest of the world in the last decade or two. If it’s an attempt to get non-believers to give two hoots about the same issue, good luck with that too. Could the current prophet maybe pull something like Joseph Smith did with those scrolls, which IIRC he said were in some language that’s never existed (reformed Egyptian?), and say that God hears the preferred name when someone says the acronym? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/62 "2018-08-19T23:05:23Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > This is indeed an odd move. > > If it’s an attempt to get other Christians to admit that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (\*) is the one true church of Christ, and the others heretics, well, good luck with that. IME that would be surprising - they seem to have been trying to find common ground with the rest of the world in the last decade or two. I was thinking, uh, less ‘sword’, and more ‘shield’. You know: imagine a guy saying “Mormon” as if it meant something other than “Christian”. And so the goal wouldn’t quite be to get One True Church Of Christ cachet; just to get “of Christ” cachet. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/63 "2018-08-19T23:06:28Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Well, there is the common Mormon–sorry, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints-ian–belief that the Saved will ascend to the planet Kolob which is nearest to Heaven in the Celestical Kingdom, so that’s pretty science-fiction-y. The CJCLDS claims that it is not official doctrine, but since Brigham Young among other authorities in the church hierarchy espoused literal belief in it and it is referenced in the _Book of Abraham_, it’s kind of difficult to say it isn’t a a part of Mormon belief. The first Mormon (or former Mormon) with whom I ever talked about Mormonism was a colleague of mine at one of my old jobs, in the late 1990s. She’d grown up in the faith, but left as an adult, and said that one of the things that they had been taught was, if a Mormon lived a sufficiently good and faithful life, when they died, they could become gods of their own worlds out in space. (I have no idea how widespread that belief was, or not.) ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/64 "2018-08-19T23:15:09Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Although I had been extremely devout up through early high school, I had never actually read the Book of Mormon other than reading verses in church. When I went on a mission, I decided to finally really read it. > > I simply could not shake the feeling that it was Bible fan fiction. That was one of the final nails in the coffin for me. That is a VERY apt description. Smith even has that special fanfic way of completely missing the style of the original, but him thinking he’s nailed it because he uses some of the same catchphrases, as **Baker** described. I think you hit the nail in the coffin on the head. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/65 "2018-08-19T23:15:28Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > This is indeed an odd move. > > If it’s an attempt to get other Christians to admit that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (\*) is the one true church of Christ, and the others heretics, well, good luck with that. IME that would be surprising - they seem to have been trying to find common ground with the rest of the world in the last decade or two. > > If it’s an attempt to get non-believers to give two hoots about the same issue, good luck with that too. > > Could the current prophet maybe pull something like Joseph Smith did with those scrolls, which IIRC he said were in some language that’s never existed (reformed Egyptian?), and say that [del]\*\*God \*\*[/del]hears the preferred name when someone says the acronym? _cough_Heavenly Father\*cough The church wants this name change malarkey talked about instead of the various troubles it’s having right now; BYU campus cops now have the same requirements under FOIA as any other law enforcement in the state; BYU students who report being sexually assaulted are routinely turned in to the Honor Code office to see what the victim’s part was and how they should repent; the church knew about a bishop assaulting women and did nothing about it, in fact they protected him from consequences; these are just those w/ an active lawsuit. There’s also bad press around ProtectLDSChildren’s movement to end bishops asking sexual questions of children as young as 8; the church’s discriminatory policy on children of LGBT couples (making them wait to be baptized until they’re both 18 and have stated they don’t agree w/ their parents’ lifestyle, while everyone else can get dunked at age 8); the information that the church holds $32 Billion in stocks alone while its charitable giving is a fraction of that (and well below the 10% they require of their members to be able to fully worship). They’d MUCH rather talk about semantics than real issues. It’s a distraction tactic. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/66 "2018-08-19T23:16:17Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > The first Mormon (or former Mormon) with whom I ever talked about Mormonism was a colleague of mine at one of my old jobs, in the late 1990s. She’d grown up in the faith, but left as an adult, and said that one of the things that they had been taught was, if a Mormon lived a sufficiently good and faithful life, when they died, they could become gods of their own worlds out in space. (I have no idea how widespread that belief was, or not.) AFAIK that is official doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/67 "2018-08-19T23:17:11Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > The first Mormon (or former Mormon) with whom I ever talked about Mormonism was a colleague of mine at one of my old jobs, in the late 1990s. She’d grown up in the faith, but left as an adult, and said that one of the things that they had been taught was, if a Mormon lived a sufficiently good and faithful life, when they died, they could become gods of their own worlds out in space. (I have no idea how widespread that belief was, or not.) Not every Mormon, only the men can have their own planet. The church is a different place for men than it is for women. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/68 "2018-08-19T23:27:27Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I tried to read the Book of Mormon once. After about a million repeats of “and it came to pass” I did take a pass and quit reading. The best modern use of that phrase would have to be NFL commentators. > [@](#): > > And lo, the running game was paltry; yea, not one yard gained the Running Backs, nor any inches. And in that day it came to pass that Manning did say “LORD, it is I, and I have come to pass”. And lo, it came to pass that verily he had come to pass, which much rejoiced the Wide Receivers, some of which were indeed most wide, and all flesh did behold it, at least all flesh which did sit in the La-Z-Boy of that which is called by the Gentiles “Monday Night Football”. And God saw that it was pretty good, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/69 "2018-08-19T23:43:39Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > This is indeed an odd move. > > If it’s an attempt to get other Christians to admit that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (\*) is the one true church of Christ, and the others heretics, well, good luck with that. IME that would be surprising - they seem to have been trying to find common ground with the rest of the world in the last decade or two. > > If it’s an attempt to get non-believers to give two hoots about the same issue, good luck with that too. It might be none of the above. It might be a ruse to distract other Morons, to keep them from (a) ratting and (b) leaving. Probably the best way to fix the Latter-day Saints is to publish their real doctrines and real practices widely. For ex-Morons to give detailed accounts of what goes on. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/70 "2018-08-19T23:48:05Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > That is a VERY apt description. Smith even has that special fanfic way of completely missing the style of the original, but him thinking he’s nailed it because he uses some of the same catchphrases, as **Baker** described. I think you hit the nail in the coffin on the head. Well, given all this helpful input, the Book of Mormon just fell about a thousand slots on my to read list. Now I’ll never get my own planet. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/71 "2018-08-19T23:50:54Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Well, there is the common Mormon–sorry, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints-ian–belief that the Saved will ascend to the planet Kolob which is nearest to Heaven in the Celestical Kingdom, so that’s pretty science-fiction-y. The CJCLDS claims that it is not official doctrine, but since Brigham Young among other authorities in the church hierarchy espoused literal belief in it and it is referenced in the _Book of Abraham_, it’s kind of difficult to say it isn’t a a part of Mormon belief. It’s easier to nail the infamous Mormon green jello to walls than to clarify Mormon theology. Kolob is actually the star closest to where God lives. After the second coming, everyone worthy and all animals which have died will be resurrected (happily including Spot who was taken to the farm, but sadly including all the cockroaches as well – they never specified this, but it’s been said to include all animals) here on Earth! > [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > They’d MUCH rather talk about semantics than real issues. It’s a distraction tactic. Who knows. It could very well be the bubble the top leaders live in, in which they think that people outside the bubble will pay attention to them. > [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Not every Mormon, only the men can have their own planet. The church is a different place for men than it is for women. But only men who have multiple wives can have planets, if Brigham Young is to be believed. Of course, he also believed that Adam was God. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/72 "2018-08-20T03:09:01Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > It might be none of the above. It might be a ruse to distract other Morons, to keep them from (a) ratting and (b) leaving. > > Probably the best way to fix the Latter-day Saints is to publish their real doctrines and real practices widely. For ex-Morons to give detailed accounts of what goes on. How wide is the internet? That’s where everything is, right down to the[temple rituals and their proscribed costumes, secret handshakes](https://www.youtube.com/user/Newnamenoah/videos), pay stubs (unpaid clergy my butt), new names, various rewrites of the Book of Abraham, accounts from Smith’s wives (even the 14 year-old, I think) - it’s all online (except footage of a Second Anointing where a man is made sinless and his place in the Celestial Kingdom sure). Stuff that everyday Mormons weren’t taught is out in the open for them to stumble across if they do what they’ve been asked not to do - [research to satisfy their questions](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/wiki/index/book_recommendations) instead of ‘reading the Book of Mormon every day’ to strengthen their testimony. This church meets the[BITE model of a cult.](https://www.openmindsfoundation.org/the-bite-model-of-influence/) And I’m a little non-Mormon island in a Mormon sea here in Utah. ETA - to add to **TokyoBayer** ’s post, it should go w/o saying that women can only be sealed to one man at a time (on earth or in the afterlife). She has to get her first husband’s permission to be sealed to a second husband after divorce, if they were sealed in the temple. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/73 "2018-08-20T10:08:55Z")
It’s pretty easy now to find where all the bodies are buried, as it were. There are many sources online as well as ex-Mormon forums and podcasts. Despite this, most of the faithful remain so, although there is very little growth from converts outside of a few developing countries. Checking a few places online, it looks like the ex-Mormons are mocking this, as anticipated; the liberal Mormons are rolling their collective eyes; and the TBM (true believing Mormons) are now TBmoTCoJCoLDS, although they would not like the abbreviation. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/74 "2018-08-20T17:28:25Z")
Speaking of Mormonism, [it might be the perfect religion for a nevernude](http://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2018/08/20/univ-of-utah-condemns-image-of-comedian-david-cross-wearing-temple-garments/). ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/75 "2018-08-20T17:38:51Z")
I grew up Mormon, not anymore, really don’t have anything against them. This is a dumb move. They’ve done too many campaigns self-identifying as “Mormon”. For the most part, if you didn’t like Mormons before, this isn’t going to make you like them any more. If you liked them before, this dilutes “the brand”. My guess is when Nelson dies (which can’t be too long hes 93 ffs), this will go right back to the way it was. What are they going to call the people against the church? Anti Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Sainters? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/76 "2018-08-20T18:51:40Z")
I am no longer an American. From now on, please refer to me as a United States Of American. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/77 "2018-08-20T19:06:29Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > What are they going to call the people against the church? Anti Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Sainters? Latter-Day Sinners, of course. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/78 "2018-08-20T19:30:14Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > What are they going to call the people against the church? Anti Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Sainters? Conscious. OR Just take out the S and add an apostrophe: Latter-day Ain’ts. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/79 "2018-08-20T20:27:09Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > What are they going to call the people against the church? Anti Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Sainters? I don’t know what they will now call those of us who are not part of their church, but I know that we are not saints. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/80 "2018-08-20T21:12:51Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I don’t know what they will now call those of us who are not part of their church, but I know that we are not saints. I dunno. I rate your chances at least slightly higher than those still in the grip. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822.md?page=5)