# Mormons aren't Mormons anymore **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 18, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822 "2018-08-18T06:11:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/121 "2018-08-22T02:06:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think this sentiment is a majority or minority opinion among women living in Utah? What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/122 "2018-08-22T02:12:23Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > What do you think? Minority. You? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/123 "2018-08-22T02:26:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Minority. You? The fact that a religious cult can indoctrinate women into accepting a role as second-class citizens doesn’t imply that they are being treating with respect. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/124 "2018-08-22T02:37:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Minority. You? Thanks for stopping by. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/125 "2018-08-22T03:23:44Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Thanks for stopping by. Note to self: Nawth Chucka does not like to answer uncomfortable questions. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/126 "2018-08-22T03:25:35Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Thanks for stopping by. Dude, when you ask someone a question, you are supposed to answer the same. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/127 "2018-08-22T03:36:52Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > I’ve figured out one of the puzzles. Mormons are supposed to avoid alcohol, right? But the surprising thing is, it’s not because of the evils of drunkenness or the health effects. It’s all to do with names! LDSers avoid alcohol because of the chemical compound that would result: Ethyl Mormon. There’s no business like show business. 🙂 I’ve listened to the audiobook memoir of a woman who grew up in the polygamous FLDS community ruled by Warren Jeffs. According to her, the LDS practice of banning alcohol didn’t originate until most followers agreed to forego plural marriage, and the FLDS sects don’t necessarily ban alcohol. IIRC her last name is Jessup, and she obviously got out in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/128 "2018-08-22T03:39:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Dude, when you ask someone a question, you are supposed to answer the same. What dude are you addressing? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/129 "2018-08-22T03:43:11Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > What dude are you addressing? You. He answered your question and asked what you thought, whereupon, you ducked the question. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/130 "2018-08-22T04:21:23Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I’ve listened to the audiobook memoir of a woman who grew up in the polygamous FLDS community ruled by Warren Jeffs. According to her, the LDS practice of banning alcohol didn’t originate until most followers agreed to forego plural marriage, and the FLDS sects don’t necessarily ban alcohol. IIRC her last name is Jessup, and she obviously got out in the end. This is close to the historical record. The “Word of Wisdom” is held to be a revelation from God to Joseph Smith in 1833, which recommended, but did not command, avoiding wine, “strong drinks,” and “hot drinks.” Joseph Smith continued to drink wine until the very day of his death. Tea and coffee were very popular among the pioneers in Utah, as was tobacco and drinking. From the early 1850s, Brigham Young started to push compliance to the Word of Wisdom, but it was not until the 1890s when the Church has publicly accepted the end to further polygamous marriages (while continuing the practice in secret) that it was elevated to a strict commandment by the church president Joseph F. Smith in the early 1900s. Although early church practice was to have the members vote on such matters, this was never the case for the change of status into a commandment. Scholars have pointed out that the polygamous offshoots of Mormonism are often closer to the original Mormon church than the main LDS branch. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/131 "2018-08-22T04:28:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You. He answered your question and asked what you thought, whereupon, you ducked the question. Ah. I am not a dude, hence my confusion. I’m a woman who lives in Utah and when I’ve already stated my opinion AND shown a link showing research to back it up, I’m not going to repeat myself so don’t bother asking. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/132 "2018-08-22T04:34:44Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Ah. I am not a dude, hence my confusion. I’m a woman who lives in Utah and when I’ve already stated my opinion AND shown a link showing research to back it up, I’m not going to repeat myself so don’t bother asking. You already stated your opinion on the matter of whether Utah was good or bad for women. I’m not asking you to repeat that. I asked you a separate question: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think this sentiment is a majority or minority opinion among women living in Utah? I don’t believe you ever answered that. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/133 "2018-08-22T12:34:20Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The fact that a religious cult can indoctrinate women into accepting a role as second-class citizens doesn’t imply that they are being treating with respect. This is the the real answer. I’m not at all surprised that **HurricaneDitka** is attempting to change the conversation from the real serious issues in Utah concerning how women are treated. It’s simply easier to ask if they are happy 'cuz they sure as hell aren’t going to tell a priesthood leader that they really would like some changes. **Nawth Chucka** is wise to not get suckered into that trap. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/134 "2018-08-22T13:33:57Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > This is the the real answer. I’m not at all surprised that **HurricaneDitka** is attempting to change the conversation from the real serious issues in Utah concerning how women are treated. It’s simply easier to ask if they are happy 'cuz they sure as hell aren’t going to tell a priesthood leader that they really would like some changes. **Nawth Chucka** is wise to not get suckered into that trap. Perhaps you’ve heard of the “Ordain Women” movement? I’m pretty sure that’s a direct refutation of your claim that “they sure as hell aren’t going to tell a priesthood leader that they really would like some changes.” ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/135 "2018-08-22T15:26:39Z")
I’m not Mormon but have many friends who are and am related by marriage to dozens of them. A few are feminists pushing for change (i.e., less patriarchy) within the LDS church. I know “feminist Mormon” seems like an oxymoron, and they tread pretty carefully due to fear of excommunication, but they’re there. They’re also pushing to change the way rape is handled by the LDS Church. And back to the OP, the few LDS I’ve asked have said they’re sticking to “Mormon,” if for no other reason than “the Church” and “the Church of Jesus Christ” don’t address what to call members: Churchians? Church of Jesus Christians? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/136 "2018-08-22T15:50:07Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > … They’re also pushing to change the way rape is handled by the LDS Church. … I’m unaware of this issue. How do they perceive rape is “handled by the LDS Church” today and what change(s) would they like to see implemented? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/137 "2018-08-22T15:51:19Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > … And back to the OP, the few LDS I’ve asked have said they’re sticking to “Mormon,” if for no other reason than “the Church” and “the Church of Jesus Christ” don’t address what to call members: Churchians? Church of Jesus Christians? Among ourselves we usually just say “member” (or perhaps “member of the Church” if it needs additional clarification). ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/138 "2018-08-22T18:45:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think this sentiment is a majority or minority opinion among women living in Utah? Perhaps you overlooked this exchange on the subject: > [@begbert2](#): > > Mormon women know their place and don’t have a problem with it. > > I’m being completely serious here. > [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > When that’s what you’re taught since you were capable of learning, that’s what you’ll believe, yes. Both I and **Nawth Chucka** both recognize the uncomfortable reality of the situation - these people are victims of psychological abuse and brainwashing. So sure, they’re ‘happy’ about it, in the same way that a person who’s been raised on lead-laden tapwater thinks that pure water tastes strange. (I’m speaking in general here, obviously: exceptions exist, characterized by not being happy about the situation.) I invite **Nawth Chucka** to correct me if I’m incorrect about her, but until then, does this answer satisfy you? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/139 "2018-08-22T19:09:10Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I think they should just _embrace_ the whole “Mormon” thing, and go for brand recognition. How about changing the name of Salt Lake City to Mordor? This is already the name of the most common configuration for Mormon cars: Tudor (rare) Fordor (a few) Mordor (the vast majority) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/140 "2018-08-22T19:31:30Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Perhaps you overlooked this exchange on the subject: > > Both I and **Nawth Chucka** both recognize the uncomfortable reality of the situation - these people are victims of psychological abuse and brainwashing. So sure, they’re ‘happy’ about it, in the same way that a person who’s been raised on lead-laden tapwater thinks that pure water tastes strange. (I’m speaking in general here, obviously: exceptions exist, characterized by not being happy about the situation.) > > I invite **Nawth Chucka** to correct me if I’m incorrect about her, but until then, does this answer satisfy you? If that’s meant as an acknowledgement that most women in Utah don’t agree with the sentiment that “Utah is terrible for women”, then yes, I’m certainly satisfied. I happen to disagree with your opinion that they are “victims of psychological abuse and brainwashing”, but I doubt we’ll see eye-to-eye on that point either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822.md?page=8)