# Mormons aren't Mormons anymore **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 18, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822 "2018-08-18T06:11:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/161 "2018-08-23T16:00:17Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > Whataboutism is generally an admission of guilt. My guess is that in Hurricane’s mind, the list came uncomfortably close to the truth. My guess is that it was a cheap off-topic shot at Democrats, but to each his own. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/162 "2018-08-23T18:57:31Z")
I’m not mormon, but I was raised by them, baptised by them, went to the meetings until I was informed I wouldn’t be thrown out of the house if I didn’t (I was 19, I think) - and of course I’m probably still listed as a member by _them_. So I think I know what I’m talking about. NOTE: I’m talking about Idaho mormons, not Utah mormons. Differences may exist. > [@](#): > > The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. Ehh, Joseph Smith is considered to be _awesome_ (or at least the fictionalized propaganda version of him is) but he’s not venerated or anything. Current leaders as similarly not venerated. Their ideology is law, but only because it’s the stated ideology of the religion. > [@](#): > > Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. Hell yes on the discouragement. Punishment may vary. > [@](#): > > Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). Eeh. There are group prayers and group songs at the meetings, but not in excess of what you’d see at any other church. ‪ > [@](#): > > The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry�or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). The actual church leaders don’t generally meddle in the minutae of people’s lives, aside from broad dictates like ‘no caffeine’, ‘no porn’, ‘don’t date non-mormons’ and the like. Those mandates, of course, are law. ‪ > [@](#): > > The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar�or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). Hell yes. > [@](#): > > The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. Yes, but given the heavy focus on prostelytizing they try to keep it on the down low. This was MUCH worse in the early days of the church, of course. > [@](#): > > The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations). They historically have liked to think they’re not, and this line of thinking was why they moved out to Utah in the first place. However that didn’t get them out of the reach of the law and eventually the federal government slapped them down hard for their lawlessness. At this point I think that if the feds came for a prophet, he’d answer the door. ‪ > [@](#): > > The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members’ participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). The ends pursued by the Mormon church are not overtly psychopathic - they mostly seem to have to do with amassing money and power for the institution. The church thinks these ends do justify the means, but the means have mostly to do with controlling its own members and tapping them as a financial and labor resource. > [@](#): > > The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. Certainly - though they’ll let the parents try to take care of it in the home first. ‪ > [@](#): > > Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group. I can see this happening in extreme cases, but if your family is a mainstream christian sect they won’t ask you to do this or imply that you should. ‪‪ > [@](#): > > The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. Famously so. ‪‪ > [@](#): > > The group is preoccupied with making money. It’s a MASSIVE focus of the religion, equalled only by their focus on controlling their members’ behavior - and sometimes putting them to work (unpaid, naturally). > [@](#): > > Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. _Several_ meetings a week - but it’s not like you have to live in the chapel or anything. Semi-inordinate? > [@](#): > > Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. No - but members are required to _date_ only with other group members. > [@](#): > > The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group. Most of them hold day jobs or care for their families, so technically no. But there are some seriously fervent mormons out there, who consider it THE dominant force in their life. I believe I’ve been fair. How this totals up, I leave as an exercise for the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/163 "2018-08-23T19:26:40Z")
A tongue-in-cheek suggestion has been to call them Ziontologists. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/164 "2018-08-23T19:28:57Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > A tongue-in-cheek suggestion has been to call them Ziontologists. That’s pretty good and doubtless I’ll use it but I still like _Oxymormons_ for specialized cases. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/165 "2018-08-23T19:40:31Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > That’s pretty good and doubtless I’ll use it but I still like _Oxymormons_ for specialized cases. I don’t personally think they’re dumb or morons; but extremely misled by a cult. Someone trying to get high by shoving an opioid pill in their ear, that’s an oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/166 "2018-08-23T21:36:45Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Someone trying to get high by shoving an opioid pill in their ear, that’s an oxymoron. Tympanic membranes can absorb some drugs, you know. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/167 "2018-08-23T21:59:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > My guess is that it was a cheap off-topic shot at Democrats, but to each his own. Meh, this thread is littered with cheap-shots at Mormons. In another thread I’ve been following, someone recently posted “if you’re going to hurl childish insults at one group, then you might get some back at the side you support.” ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/168 "2018-08-23T22:16:00Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Meh, this thread is littered with cheap-shots at Mormons. In another thread I’ve been following, someone recently posted “if you’re going to hurl childish insults at one group, then you might get some back at the side you support.” I’d have liked your cheap shot a lot better had it actually made sense. “No _you!_”, enlightened discourse though it is, falls a little flat when when ‘you’ isn’t actually guilty of the thing in question. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/169 "2018-08-23T22:49:44Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I’d have liked your cheap shot a lot better had it actually made sense. “No _you!_”, enlightened discourse though it is, falls a little flat when when ‘you’ isn’t actually guilty of the thing in question. The Democratic Party certainly checks some of those “cult” checkboxes, and not others, not entirely unlike the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. senoy wrote: > [@senoy](#): > > … I think that most groups whether religious or secular will probably have a few things on the list. Anyway, that’s why I like the list. I think that it shows that groups can have cult-like tendencies. … I think he’s correct that, at least according to his list, “most groups whether religious or secular will probably have a few things on the list.” ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/170 "2018-08-23T22:57:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The Democratic Party certainly checks some of those “cult” checkboxes, and not others, not entirely unlike the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. senoy wrote: > > I think he’s correct that, at least according to his list, “most groups whether religious or secular will probably have a few things on the list.” Like what items do you imagine it checks, out of off-topic curiousity? I did an exhaustive runthrough of the list for the mormon church and honestly it didn’t hit nearly as many points as one might think, on account of the fact it doesn’t actually lock people in a compound and claim their leaders are literally incarnated deities. It would take a feverish imagination indeed to decide that the democratic party locks people in compounds and literally deifies anyone (even Obama!), so the kind of frantic twisting it would take to portray them as such should be interesting (though possibly painful) to see. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/171 "2018-08-23T22:59:37Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Now there’s an oxymormon. Which is precisely why they exist. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/172 "2018-08-23T23:27:18Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Like what items do you imagine it checks, out of off-topic curiousity? … I think a case could be made for these ones: > [@](#): > > Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. > > The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar�or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). > > ‪The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. > > The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members’ participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). > > The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. > > The group is preoccupied with making money. > > Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. Would you willingly concede any of these? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/173 "2018-08-23T23:54:52Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Would you willingly concede any of these? > [@](#): > > Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. No. The democrats are actually all over the place with regard to their ideology, with little concensus about how far we should go with the environment, the economy, nukes, preervation, and so on. Dissent it pretty common - about the only thing the left all agrees about is that the radical right is full of shit. > [@](#): > > The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar�or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). Well, we think we’re better than _you_, but few democrats think that the democratic party is superior to other liberal governments throughout the world. And nobody who’s on the rails thinks that any democratic politician is literally deified. > [@](#): > > ‪The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. Which wider society? You have the democrats, the independents, and the republicans. Democrats think that the republicans are full of shit, but like independents fine. So Democrats are fine with the wider society. > [@](#): > > The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members’ participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). Nope. Sure, there are fringe groups that are radical enough to think that anything goes for the purpose of saving lab mice or whatever, but the notion that the democrats as a whole are engaging in reprehensible behaviors on the orders of the party is lunatic talk. > [@](#): > > The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. Obviously not. Sure, it would be great if more people were liberals, but neither the democrats as a whole nor the DNC as an organization devote a significant percentage of their time to prosteletization. (And neither do republicans.) > [@](#): > > The group is preoccupied with making money. Preoccupied? Nope. I will grant that fund raising occurs, but you don’t have to pay a single penny to be a democrat, nor do you have to participate in any activities that funnel money to the upper ranks. It’s barely even encouraged, really. > [@](#): > > Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. This is, of course, insane for somebody to say on a so-called liberal message board that allows _you_ on it. If you had even a semblance of a point with this, we’d refuse to talk to you. ETA: Didn’t you notice me giving mormonism a pretty wide pass on the things it actually doesn’t do? You want me to call you a cult, you have to _actually act like a cult_. I’ve seen mormonism, I _know_ what an organization that focuses on recruitment, money, and control of its members looks like. Democrats ain’t that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/174 "2018-08-24T00:21:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Meh, this thread is littered with cheap-shots at Mormons. In another thread I’ve been following, someone recently posted “if you’re going to hurl childish insults at one group, then you might get some back at the side you support.” I hate to agree with _this guy,_ but yeah, I mean “_oxymormon_” is funny, but just “_moron_” is a cheap childish shot. ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/175 "2018-08-24T00:46:27Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Well, if the _context_ is the RC church talking about itself, or Catholics talking among themselves, then obviously they would just say “The Church”, without qualification. It would be strange to say “The Catholic Church” if you’re all Catholics talking about your church. I don’t think the usage implies that anyone is trying to lay claim to the expression. It’s no different from just saying “the house” when you are talking you your spouse about the family home. Out of context I don’t think “The Church” implies any particular Church - in fact, I think it would be odd to just say “The Church” without qualification unless the context makes clear what you’re talking about. Ex-Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints member here. I don’t know how the General Authorities (the senile old guys that are Mormondom’s version of Cardinals) plan to pull this off – or, really, why? Even my uber-Mormon cousins are making fun of this on FB. Outside of Utah, I assume “The Church” to mean Catholic if it’s not in a certain context. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/176 "2018-08-24T01:11:38Z")
I don’t have time right now to formulate a response to each point individually. You can read what I’ve written so far. > [@begbert2](#): > > Obviously not. Sure, it would be great if more people were liberals, but neither the democrats as a whole nor the DNC as an organization devote a significant percentage of their time to prosteletization. (And neither do republicans.) You’ve got to be f\*\*\*ing kidding me: [DNC ANNOUNCES NEW IWILLVOTE CAMPAIGN TO REACH 50 MILLION VOTERS IN 2018](https://www.democrats.org/Post/dnc-announces-new-iwillvote-campaign-to-reach-50-million-voters-in-2018) > [@](#): > > Today, the Democratic National Committee is announcing the launch of IWillVote - an unprecedented new campaign with four initiatives: Commit to Vote; Voter Registration; Voter Education and Protection; and Get-Out-The-Vote. Under the IWillVote program, the DNC, in partnership with state parties and organizations, aims to reach 50 million voters from now until November to engage, educate, and mobilize them to vote for Democrats up and down the ticket. … > [@begbert2](#): > > Preoccupied? Nope. I will grant that fund raising occurs, but you don’t have to pay a single penny to be a democrat, nor do you have to participate in any activities that funnel money to the upper ranks. It’s barely even encouraged, really. Go to [democrats.org](https://www.democrats.org/). What does the button in the top right corner of the website say? “DONATE” > [@begbert2](#): > > This is, of course, insane for somebody to say on a so-called liberal message board that allows _you_ on it. The SDMB isn’t an organ of the Democratic Party (at least officially). Agreed? > [@begbert2](#): > > If you had even a semblance of a point with this, we’d refuse to talk to you. Some do. Here are some examples that have happened recently that I believe demonstrate this type of behavior: [One year later, how Trump’s election has changed the way we date](http://www.philly.com/philly/living/sex_love_dating/donald-trump-election-dating-sex-year-change-anniversary-20171107.html?arc404=true) > [@](#): > > Annie White, a Philadelphia-based dating coach and founder of Sick of Single Dating Service, said she was floored this year when a client told her dating a Trump supporter would be “a nonstarter.” Since then, she said, she’s noticed an increasing number of clients indicating political affiliation is more important now than ever. [Swipe left if you voted for Trump](http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/politics/state/dating-new-york-trump/) > [@](#): > > On two of the main dating apps used by New Yorkers – Tinder and Bumble – you swipe right if interested in the person (and hope they do too, for a match) and left to reject the candidate. Frequently, the people I came across seemed interested in steering clear of anyone who supported Trump. “Swipe left if you voted for Trump,” I’d see on one profile. Other versions included “If you voted for Trump, we shall not hump” and the less rhythmical, more brutal: “If you voted for Trump, swipe yourself off a cliff.” [Why It’s Hard for Conservatives to Date in DC Right Now](https://www.washingtonian.com/2018/03/05/why-its-hard-for-conservatives-to-date-in-dc-right-now/) > [@](#): > > Most Americans think today’s strongest tensions lie between Democrats and Republicans, according to a Pew Research study. And in DC, where there’s already a lot of social sorting along party membership, the growing hyper-partisanship extends to even the most sacred of spaces: millennial dating. > > Washington has the most singles actively dating and using dating apps, according to a recent Time Out ranking, so it’s not surprising that political standoffs would take place in packed bars and Bumble conversations. The League, a selective dating app, says its DC users are 15 times more likely to mention politics in their bios since the 2016 presidential election, and one-third say they wouldn’t date someone with contrasting political beliefs. [I accidentally slept with a Donald Trump supporter](https://torontolife.com/city/life/tinder-tales-donald-trump-supporter/) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/177 "2018-08-24T03:52:57Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > Whataboutism is generally an admission of guilt. My guess is that in Hurricane’s mind, the list came uncomfortably close to the truth. I can’t pretend to guess what Hurricane is or isn’t thinking, but active, believing Mormons often refuse to consider anything negative about the church. Why was the sex scandals in the Catholic Church allowed to continue for so long? There really isn’t anything different with Mormons. It’s usually pointless to engage with members. So many are pretty hostile and attack any and everything. Former members usually aren’t very laid back, either which often results in simply “screaming over the back fence” that doesn’t get anything solved. > [@harmonicamoon](#): > > I grew up in Utah. And HD’s question is a good one. > > The California Mormons were different from Utah Mormons. California Mormons drank Coke. Utah Mormons didn’t. > > Not comparing Women and Coke, just saying there were differences between Non-Utah and Utah Mormons. I don’t see HD’s question as being asked in good faith, but rather a method of avoiding an actual discussion if Mormon women are treated as second class citizens. Do you believe that Mormon women are treated equally? **Nawth Chucka** was commenting on factors which makes lives difficult for women in Utah. I don’t see a universal [Mormon Corridor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_Corridor#/media/File:LDS_Percentage_of_Population_2000.PNG) vs. Non-Mormon Corridor. (Link shows a map of the percentage of people per county who are Mormon. As can be seen, most of Utah and parts of southern Idaho have strong Mormon majorities.) But let’s just use the expression “Utah Mormons.” I know Mormons from outside Utah who were every bit as insular as Utah Mormons and I’ve know Utah Mormons who weren’t very typical. The Coke vs. Non-coke was a major question everywhere prior to the official word recently allowing caffeinated soft drinks. As missionaries, we were officially forbidden to drink colas, and those drinks were not sold at BYU and other church-run schools. Otherwise it was up to the occasional overzealous local leader. My friend’s father took a job in Florida back in the 60s and the first thing his father was asked about which side of the coke/no coke divide in the congregation. His father said he always considered question how to be more Christlike as being far more important. Were more Mormons like my friend’s father, I may not have left the Church. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/178 "2018-08-24T05:15:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t have time right now to formulate a response to each point individually. You can read what I’ve written so far. > > You’ve got to be f\*\*\*ing kidding me: [DNC ANNOUNCES NEW IWILLVOTE CAMPAIGN TO REACH 50 MILLION VOTERS IN 2018](https://www.democrats.org/Post/dnc-announces-new-iwillvote-campaign-to-reach-50-million-voters-in-2018) Obviously you didn’t comprehend what you just quoted. They are going after voters. Nowhere does it say that they are trying to sign them up as card carrying democrats. Do you have a problem with a party trying to get people to vote. Oh, you’re a conservative, so you want to suppress voting through restrictive laws wherever possible. > [@](#): > > Go to [democrats.org](https://www.democrats.org/). What does the button in the top right corner of the website say? “DONATE” So does Wikipedia. The horror. However, you are right that the Dems - and the Republicans - are fundraising day and night. Why would that be? Maybe because conservatives fought against reasonable restrictions on election spending. So it is a bit hypocritical for conservatives to complain about Democrats raising money to combat a situation they created. > [@](#): > > Some do. Here are some examples that have happened recently that I believe demonstrate this type of behavior: > > [One year later, how Trump’s election has changed the way we date](http://www.philly.com/philly/living/sex_love_dating/donald-trump-election-dating-sex-year-change-anniversary-20171107.html?arc404=true) > [Swipe left if you voted for Trump](http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/politics/state/dating-new-york-trump/) Gee, why would someone not want to date a person supporting a racist? Maybe it is their moral values. I get bombarded by email from Democrats, and none of them asks me not to date non-Democrats. Are you saying the Dems don’t date indpendents? Or even liberal Republicans? (The few left.) We know Mormon restrictions on dating outside the faith. That’s anyone outside. If Mormons didn’t date Satanists, I doubt anyone would think them odd. Yes I’m equating Trumpists to Satanists, which isn’t really fair - I think Satanists are a lot more moral. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/179 "2018-08-24T05:29:38Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > I don’t see HD’s question as being asked in good faith, but rather a method of avoiding an actual discussion if Mormon women are treated as second class citizens. … The possibility of actual good-faith discussion was pretty much foreclosed in this thread by the second or third post. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822/180 "2018-08-24T05:34:14Z")
I recall many years ago seeing something that said the Mormons also identified as “Lambs of God”. Now, there would be a fine acronym. But I cannot determine whether it would be the “Church of Logs” or the “Log Church”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-arent-mormons-anymore/819822.md?page=10)