# Mormons baptized Simon Wiesenthal...so what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 14, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822 "2012-02-14T17:20:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/101 "2012-02-15T17:27:15Z")
I’m glad to read this morning that the church agrees with me, and is punishing the person who did it. I don’t expect to hear what the exact punishment is, since the church is secretive about lots of things. Still, announcing it publicly sends the right message, and shows they have learned at least. So good for them. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/102 "2012-02-15T17:27:26Z")
Hmmm…I’m seeing a potential market in baptism-deflecting burial shrouds. ---
**Author:** ![dorsk188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@dorsk188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorsk188)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/103 "2012-02-15T17:52:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’m fine with a Christian believing I’m going to go to hell, but not so fine with him baptizing me forcibly or posthumously. Actions count. As do words. While I’m not suggesting anyone should stop Christians from saying this sort of thing, people should challenge them and express the appropriate distaste for their dogma. I’m a strong believer in shame as a socializing motivation. > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Hmmm…I’m seeing a potential market in baptism-deflecting burial shrouds. Utah’s a pretty dry place, right? What about a coffin made of sodium or potassium? If they try to drizzle water on my grave, they’ll get a toxic gas explosion for their trouble. (At the very least it would register my point of view on the matter.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/104 "2012-02-15T18:08:57Z")
Um, in case those weren’t jokes, the Mormons do this kind of thing as baptism _by proxy_. They don’t go to people’s graves and dump water on them. They baptize a living LDS member in place of the dead person. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/105 "2012-02-15T18:33:50Z")
Really? Next you’ll be telling us they eat their god’s flesh and blood by proxy, too. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/106 "2012-02-15T19:19:37Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’m glad to read this morning that the church agrees with me, and is punishing the person who did it. I don’t expect to hear what the exact punishment is, since the church is secretive about lots of things. “I sentence you to…the comfy chair!” :eek: ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/107 "2012-02-15T20:12:08Z")
Saying “They’re trying to help” seems a poor excuse in my opinion. It’s one thing for you to pray that I’ll have good health, something I actually want. I don’t believe your prayer will have any effect, but I suppose it’s nice that you _want_ me to be healthy, and are doing something you _believe_ will contribute to that (even if it’s not effective). But it’s another thing to pray that I become a Mormon, something I _don’t_ actually want. Here’s my try at an analogy. If they were praying that a gay person become straight, does everyone see how that’s offensive? How is praying to turn a Jew into a Mormon any better? Both are pretty insulting IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/108 "2012-02-15T20:27:07Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > But it’s another thing to pray that I become a Mormon, something I _don’t_ actually want. Is that what they’re doing? That’s different then baptizing them. ---
**Author:** ![dorsk188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@dorsk188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorsk188)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/109 "2012-02-15T20:51:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Um, in case those weren’t jokes, the Mormons do this kind of thing as baptism _by proxy_. They don’t go to people’s graves and dump water on them. They baptize a living LDS member in place of the dead person. Aw, why do you have to ruin our fun with your relentless facts?.. I assumed they poured out some water on the ground or something (obviously not over their graves). Incidentally, that makes the whole thing much more creepy to me. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/110 "2012-02-15T21:17:36Z")
Incidentally, several years ago, a friend of imne was researching his genealogy and discovered that an ancestor of his had been murdered and the murderer had escaped. He said he wanted to avenge his ancestor by getting the Mormons to baptize the murderer, who was French, but would ahve to spend an eternity without coffee, wine or cigarettes. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/111 "2012-02-16T00:04:12Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > But, pissing on something is generally considered a sign disrespect. Baptizing someone is not generally considered a sign of disrespect. But in this case, one could say, “well, in my beliefs, pissing on someone’s grave IS a sign of respect. That is how WE baptise someone!” What would be your response there? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/112 "2012-02-16T00:18:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > But in this case, one could say, “well, in my beliefs, pissing on someone’s grave IS a sign of respect. That is how WE baptise someone!” What would be your response there? > > :dubious: That your analogy only holds up if actually happens is that some member of your congregation declares that they are standing in for me, and the other members of your congregation piss on the stand in. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BordelDeMerde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BordelDeMerde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BordelDeMerde)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/113 "2012-02-16T02:43:07Z")
More thin-skinned outrage from a special interest group. Toughen up and don’t be so easily offended. Obviously its silly. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/114 "2012-02-16T02:47:06Z")
I have a much simpler analogy that may get across exactly how offensive this is. Fred Phelps appears to believe strongly that telling the world that people are going to hell, at their funeral, will help other people avoid hell in some manner. Clearly, either he’s right, in which case he may help someone, or he’s wrong, in which case his words mean nothing. However, he is still one of the world’s grade A assholes. This is only slightly less offensive, and of the same exact degree of jerkitude. Am I wrong here? Do Mormons really want to stand at the side of Fred Phelps? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/115 "2012-02-16T02:52:14Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Am I wrong here? Do Mormons really want to stand at the side of Fred Phelps? Based on the Church’s support of Prop. 8, they hate fags. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/116 "2012-02-16T02:57:24Z")
> [@BordelDeMerde](#): > > More thin-skinned outrage from a special interest group. Which special interest group is that? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/117 "2012-02-16T02:59:41Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Is that what they’re doing? That’s different then baptizing them. Well, I have only Wikipedia-level knowledge of what [baptism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism) means. “In Christianity, baptism […] is […] the rite of admission […] into the Christian Church generally and also membership of a particular church tradition.” So I guess they’re not “praying they become Mormon” they’re “conducting a ceremony to admit them into Mormon-dom.” Which is different/better how? My point was, it’s not someone praying for you to have something you actually want (e.g., good health). It’s someone trying their best (however ineffectual I believe it to be) to force something on you that you don’t want. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/118 "2012-02-16T03:16:44Z")
> [@BordelDeMerde](#): > > More thin-skinned outrage from a special interest group. Mods: Is calling someone and anti-Semite a ban-able offense? ---
**Author:** ![BordelDeMerde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BordelDeMerde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BordelDeMerde)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/119 "2012-02-16T03:35:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Which special interest group is that? Jewish people of course. ---
**Author:** ![BordelDeMerde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BordelDeMerde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BordelDeMerde)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822/120 "2012-02-16T03:42:49Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Mods: Is calling someone and anti-Semite a ban-able offense? Hmm. Someone is anti-semitic if they think the Wiesenthal Center is hollering too loud and too often about silly things? Hopefully you will be warned by a mod for what might as well be a personal attack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-baptized-simon-wiesenthal-so-what/612822.md?page=7)