# Mormons getting their own planet come Judgement Day? Can someone elaborate on this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816 "2012-09-25T20:10:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/101 "2012-10-01T16:00:19Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I can imagine her head exploding when she finds out about post-Manifesto polygamous marriages. Do you really think that’s worse than finding out about Joseph Smith’s approach to young women? The part about telling them that an angel with a flaming sword had threatened to destroy him if he didn’t restore polygamy, with them? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/102 "2012-10-01T16:00:45Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > I never said I know everything nor was I trying to come across as I have. I even thanked you all for giving me more information and things to learn about and consider. I hear this vague statement a lot, but seldom do I see any actual change in attitude or belief in further conversations. What specifically did you learn in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/103 "2012-10-01T16:12:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I hear this vague statement a lot, but seldom do I see any actual change in attitude or belief in further conversations. What specifically did you learn in this thread? I certainly learned more about JS himself and his personal history. I learned how at least some non-members feel about the Church and some of their reasons for leaving. I discovered some more resources to explore. I learned a lot about myself as well. I thought I was going to get angry at what people may have had to say about my faith and beliefs in this thread, but I found I didn’t get angry. I was simply curious. I am surprised at some people’s reaction to what I have to say, but I appreciate it none the less. If no one ever disagreed with me I would never have a chance to examine myself and evolve as a person. I am never afraid to discuss things with people who have differing opinions or backgrounds than me. I always come away from the exchange having learned something, especially about myself. I don’t think the point was to change anyone’s beliefs, that is definitely not what my intention was, but I think it was productive regardless. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/104 "2012-10-01T16:36:23Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > I gave resources and you do or do not want to use them. You may already have. It’s all I got. I taught Gospel Doctrine classes, went on a mission and was the president of the priests’ quorum, the teachers’ quorum, and the deacons’ quorum. I went to my four years of seminary. Unlike some people here, I actually read sites I link to. > [@](#): > > Also, you know I didn’t mean any harm or condescension by my comment. It is rude for you to tell people who have made careful decisions to leave a church which tells lies and hides the truth that a [del]Flying Spaghetti Monster[/del] “Heavenly Father” loves them and wants them back. > [@](#): > > You aren’t really angry at me, you are angry at what has happened to you for whatever reason to leave the Church which has nothing to do with me personally. Into mind reading now? I have Mormon friends, who are friends because they don’t attempt to insult my intelligence. I think you are deluded not because of anything having to do with my history with the church, but because your approach is juvenile and condescending. You came into this thread, throwing out mindless trash which you picked up teaching your six year olds in the primary class. “Near beer,” indeed. Next, you’ll be telling us Christ drank grape juice, something which many Mormons say with a straight face. You’ve give us all lectures on research, and you don’t even know the first thing about Mormon history. > [@](#): > > Prayer is the answer to my spiritual questions The fallback is the testimony. It always is, yet I have yet to find a Mormon who actually thinks much about that. This is best described [in this site](http://mormonthink.com/testimonyweb.htm#feelingsvsfacts) run by Mormon members. > [@](#): > > What most Latter-day Saints have been taught in church and believe as truth. > > A testimony is a reliable method to learn the truth. Men can deceive, science can be wrong but a true testimony is an undeniable way to establish the truth of the gospel. A testimony of the Book of Mormon can be gained by reading the Book of Mormon and putting the book to the test by praying about whether or not it is true > > (. . . .) > > The basic fallacy of the Book of Mormon promise is that truth can be discerned from a feeling. Where does it say this? It says it in the Book of Mormon. Well if the Book of Mormon isn’t true then the promise is meaningless. It also says it in the Doctrine & Covenants but if the BOM isn’t true then neither is the D&C. LDS prophets also say that but if the BOM isn’t true then they aren’t prophets. The Book of Mormon cannot be used to prove itself if it’s a work of fiction. > > There is circular logic to the spiritual witness paradigm that is accepted in the church. How do you know that the transcendent feeling, that burning in the bosom, that feeling of calm is a witness from God? Because you have been taught that from the scriptures and from the leaders and teachers within the church. How do you know that the leaders and teachers are teaching truth? Because it says so in the scriptures. How do you know the scriptures are true? Because you have received a witness. The circle continues with no foundation. > > Members of the LDS Church seem to think that there is this irrevocable law established eons ago that says you can discern the truth by having a good feeling about it. That has never been established. If it was an eternally established principle then we mortals wouldn’t be so confused about everything from what religion to join to deciding whether or not someone is guilty of a crime. > > (. . .) > > It is this pernicious warm fuzzy process we choose to be specifically at war with. LDS and other religionists tend to primarily base their religious certainty on one or more of these ecstatic experiences and use them to justify a knee-jerk rejection of any information contrary to their spiritual perceptions. Faith then trumps reason in their minds when reason is in conflict with faith. > > The irony of this of course is that faith has a terrible track record when it is in conflict with reason. One person’s warm fuzzy confirmation contradicts another person’s warm fuzzy confirmation often even within the same religious organization. What size ego does it take to assume, as many LDS do, that their warm fuzzy is the warmest and the fuzziest of any contradicting warm fuzzy; that their confirmation from God, which contradicts literally billions of other extremely sincere confirmations from God, is confirmation of higher otherworld truths than all the rest? “God really does love me the most!” > > (. . . ) > > A comment from an ex-Mormon: > > ``` > After a lot of study and research I determined that it was a fraud. However, I was very conflicted over my "spiritual" experiences. There were many experiences that I considered to be spiritual. These occurred throughout my mission, callings, meetings, bearing of testimony, etc. A couple of years after I had quit believing I attended the retirement ceremony for John Stockton. I'm a big Jazz fan and Stockton was always my favorite player. During the ceremony they played clips from throughout Stockton's career. During this tribute I felt the Spirit as strong as I ever did during my experience in the LDS Church. It was pretty clear to me at that point that what I was feeling was an emotional response that I had been conditioned to believe was the "Spirit." > > The most amazing discovery for me since leaving the church, has been realizing that my spirituality hasn't ended. When I was a member of the church, I thought that I had "felt the spirit" many times. You know, that feeling that you get when you're singing the "The Spirit of God Like a Fire is Burning", or "O My Father"? I still get that feeling quite often, but now I realize it's based on emotion and endorphins. My sense of worship now comes from seeking beauty - something I do actively. The feeling of awe I get when I see the glow of Mt. Rainier at sunset, drive through the Redwoods, or when I listen to someone like Pat Metheny, Sade, or the soundtrack to Les Miserables, is beautiful to me, and is much more fulfilling than the guilt-ridden emotional rush I sought after in the church. > > ``` The section goes into a lot of depth about “testimonies” and how they are clearly not signs from your Flying Spaghetti Monster. And, people are still waiting for those cites. Near beer and all. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/105 "2012-10-01T16:41:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I hear this vague statement a lot, but seldom do I see any actual change in attitude or belief in further conversations. What specifically did you learn in this thread? We’ll also see if she learns how to back up insanely idiotic statements with primary sources. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/106 "2012-10-01T16:54:07Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > We’ll also see if she learns how to back up insanely idiotic statements with primary sources. Please tone it down, **TokyoBayer**. I understand that you find this subject upsetting and that you objected to **April R** ’s post (which was not that offensive; at most it was a little insensitive and condescending). But here you’re drifting towards BBQ Pit territory. Please keep your posts in this thread appropriate for Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/107 "2012-10-01T16:56:02Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/108 "2012-10-01T17:02:43Z")
Sorry, **TB** , I guess I don’t know as much as you do. I will continue to improve myself as much as I can. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/109 "2012-10-01T17:23:46Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Sorry, **TB** , I guess I don’t know as much as you do. I will continue to improve myself as much as I can. Find and all, but we’re still waiting for you to provide cites. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/110 "2012-10-01T17:41:53Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Do you really think that’s worse than finding out about Joseph Smith’s approach to young women? The part about telling them that an angel with a flaming sword had threatened to destroy him if he didn’t restore polygamy, with them? Well, every person has their own breaking points for belief. For me, I remember being very disturbed when I learned about post-Manifesto polygamy. It revealed the 1890 proclamation (which is canonized and sits with the rest of the scriptures on the altars of the temples) to be a sham, little more than a political convenience rather than a communique from God. It was one of the first times I thought, “Wow, the church lied.” But everyone has their own personal individualized things about Mormonism that will bother them. I don’t know if gender-based generalizations are useful, but I’ve noticed that men seem to get worked up more over the ahistorical nature of the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham whereas women get more bothered by the anti-gay doctrine and political agenda. But everyone is different. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/111 "2012-10-01T17:42:20Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Find and all, but we’re still waiting for you to provide cites. Quote what you think I should cite and I will look if I can provide some. I don’t know what you want me to cite, so please show me and I will see what I can do! ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/112 "2012-10-01T17:52:29Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Well, every person has their own breaking points for belief. For me, I remember being very disturbed when I learned about post-Manifesto polygamy. It revealed the 1890 proclamation (which is canonized and sits with the rest of the scriptures on the altars of the temples) to be a sham, little more than a political convenience rather than a communique from God. It was one of the first times I thought, “Wow, the church lied.” > > But everyone has their own personal individualized things about Mormonism that will bother them. I don’t know if gender-based generalizations are useful, but I’ve noticed that men seem to get worked up more over the ahistorical nature of the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham whereas women get more bothered by the anti-gay doctrine and political agenda. But everyone is different. From the little I read in wiki, and it was little, it appears that the official stance was no more illegal plural marriages, and this was adhered to even in places where plural marriages continued to be performed and the locals thought it was legal. I don’t see where there was any lying. > [@](#): > > The Manifesto was the end of official church authorization for the creation of new plural marriages that violated local laws. **It had no effect on the status of already existing plural marriages, and plural marriages continued to be performed in locations where it was believed to be legal.** As Woodruff explained at the general conference where the Manifesto was accepted by the church, “[t]his Manifesto only refers to future marriages, and does not affect past conditions. I did not, I could not, and would not promise that you would desert your wives and children. This you cannot do in honor.”[11] Despite Woodruff’s explanation, some church leaders and members who were polygamous did begin to live with only one wife.[12] However, the majority of Mormon polygamists continued to cohabit with their plural wives in violation of the Edmunds–Tucker Act.[13] > Aftermath and post-Manifesto plural marriage > > Within six years of the announcement of the Manifesto, Utah had become a state and federal prosecution of Mormon polygamists subsided. However, Congress still refused to seat representatives-elect who were polygamists, including B. H. Roberts.[14] > > **D. Michael Quinn and other Mormon historians have documented that some church apostles covertly sanctioned plural marriages after the Manifesto. This practice was especially prevalent in Mexico and Canada because of an erroneous belief that such marriages were legal in those jurisdictions.** [15] However, **a significant minority were performed in Utah and other western American states and territories. The estimates of the number of post-Manifesto plural marriages performed range from scores to thousands, with the actual figure probably close to 250**.[16] Today, the LDS Church officially acknowledges that although the Manifesto “officially ceased” the practice of plural marriage in the church, “the ending of the practice after the Manifesto was … gradual.”[17] > > Rumors of post-Manifesto marriages surfaced and began to be examined by Congress in the Reed Smoot hearings. In response, church president Joseph F. Smith issued a “Second Manifesto” in 1904 which reaffirmed the church’s opposition to the creation of new plural marriages and threatened excommunication for Latter-day Saints who continued to enter into or solemnize new plural marriages. Apostles John W. Taylor and Matthias F. Cowley both resigned from the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles due to disagreement with the church’s position on plural marriage.[18] Plural marriage in violation of local law continues to be grounds for excommunication from the LDS Church.[19] > > The gradual cessation of plural marriage within LDS Church gave rise to the Mormon fundamentalist movement. Some people in the Church wanted to stick with it even though it was no longer sanctioned, and that is where you get part of the reason the LDS Fundies split off. The Church didn’t lie, but they also didn’t split up the already existing plural marriages and did perform some plural marriages in places where it was believed to be legal or at least not prosecutable. At least that is my understanding from what I just read. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/113 "2012-10-01T18:23:15Z")
Because the Manifesto is canonized as scripture, many Mormons get the impression that as of 1890 God and the mainstream LDS church no longer required or supported polygamy. So it comes as a surprise to some that mainstream Mormons outside of the US continued to practice polygamy and that even in Salt Lake City the apostles continued to take new brides in secret. Apparently the 1890 Manifesto was nothing more than a deliberately misleading press release. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/114 "2012-10-01T18:37:43Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Quote what you think I should cite and I will look if I can provide some. I don’t know what you want me to cite, so please show me and I will see what I can do! I said that D&C 89 endorses beer. You replied that I was not “being truthful” and that I was “spreading falsities” and that I “don’t really know what [I am] talking about,” and then proceeded to claim that “barley for mild drinks” refers to O’Douls. From a simple reading of the text, it seems clear that the scripture endorses beer; therefore, if you are going to use such strong accusatory language against me, you ought to provide a cite to back it up. I believe that, specifically, is a cite that **TokyoBayer** is requesting in post #104. There may be more. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/115 "2012-10-01T18:44:40Z")
Yeah, I think he’s asking for a Near Beer cite and possibly an acknowledgement from April R that her cite about polyandry said the exact opposite of what she claimed it did. Also, April R, what you quoted there said explicitly that the apostles secretly performed plural marriages in Utah, where they knew it was illegal and against the Manifesto of 1890. They did lie. I don’t see how you can read your post and not see that. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/116 "2012-10-01T18:59:53Z")
I hope I didn’t come across as hurt or defensive in that last post. I’m actually enjoying this conversation a lot. **April** ’s condescending tone, and her tendency (3 times in this thread so far) to quote sources that refute her own statements, is just so stereotypically, well, Mormon. It almost invokes Poe’s law, except that she’s so much like I was a few years ago that I believe she is sincere. There are Mormons on this board who are deliberately rude and evasive and there are a few that are so damn friendly that it’s no fun to engage them. **April** is neither of those. Her self-refuting quotes and the oh-so-thick Mormon-speak have really made me laugh out loud on several occasions. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/117 "2012-10-01T20:24:31Z")
How do you change your mind so many times on so many things and still consider any of it to be the word of God rather than a bunch of stuff that some guys made up? ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/118 "2012-10-01T22:16:40Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Yeah, I think he’s asking for a Near Beer cite and possibly an acknowledgement from April R that her cite about polyandry said the exact opposite of what she claimed it did. > > Also, April R, what you quoted there said explicitly that the apostles secretly performed plural marriages in Utah, where they knew it was illegal and against the Manifesto of 1890. They did lie. I don’t see how you can read your post and not see that. What I see is that some apostles performed plural marriages, either with or without the knowledge of the President of the Church is not clear. Some of those same apostles were probably among those who left the mainstream LDS Church to star the FLDS Church. Whatever the Church did, the US government thought it was good enough to grant Utah statehood, and the abolition of plural marriage did happen though gradually. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/119 "2012-10-01T22:28:48Z")
> [@Rhodes](#): > > I hope I didn’t come across as hurt or defensive in that last post. I’m actually enjoying this conversation a lot. **April** ’s condescending tone, and her tendency (3 times in this thread so far) to quote sources that refute her own statements, is just so stereotypically, well, Mormon. It almost invokes Poe’s law, except that she’s so much like I was a few years ago that I believe she is sincere. There are Mormons on this board who are deliberately rude and evasive and there are a few that are so damn friendly that it’s no fun to engage them. **April** is neither of those. Her self-refuting quotes and the oh-so-thick Mormon-speak have really made me laugh out loud on several occasions. I didn’t come here to try and prove anything. I was concerned that there was some gross exaggeration, deceptive name calling (as in magical underwear and hats) and purposeful misinformation being presented and I just wanted to start a conversation from a different POV. I know I have not been a member of the Church very long nor do I know everything there is to know about it. I cited sources that not only confirmed my point of view, but also provided counter points. Just like anything, you can take the same set of data and interpret it to fit your own ends. You see it one way, I see it another. The near beer thing is something I got from another website, I will go look for it now. But it was just an opinion so I didn’t cite it as authority, because it wasn’t. It was the best answer I had to the question proposed. It would surprise me none if the early Church members drank beer, or wine, or smoked tobacco. These things happened, we have moved beyond that and progressed. That is the whole purpose of this life. To be able to move past earthly pleasures and get to a point where we feel complete in the Spirit. Why is that so far fetched? It fits with the Christian/LDS worldview just fine. I have a Loooooong way to go, but I am humble enough to admit when I don’t know it all but I am open to learning more. I am not the only one in this thread who can be accused of being condescending, except I did not have the intention of being condescending, but those of you who belittled my belief by using phrases such as “magical underwear” and calling what I believe to be like the Flying Spaghetti Monster were being purposely condescending. Dare I say that is blatantly hypocritical. So point fingers all you want, but you are also being what you accuse me of being. [Barley for Mild Drinks? | Times & Seasons](http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/barley-for-mild-drinks/) \<\<\< near beer reference. Again not my idea, just something I thought made sense from another source. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/120 "2012-10-01T22:33:40Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Isn’t that planet named "coleslaw’, “kohlrabi”..or something like that? again condescending and belittling [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816.md?page=7)