# Mormons getting their own planet come Judgement Day? Can someone elaborate on this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816 "2012-09-25T20:10:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/161 "2012-10-02T17:15:59Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > We’ll be here, any day and ready to discuss any topic about Mormonism. I have a question for you, (or any other ex-Mormon who served a mission) TokyoBayer. Have you ever contacted any of the still-practicing Mormons that you converted and/or baptized while serving on your mission and told them that you have now discovered the LDS Church to be a massive fraud, and encouraged them to investigate the various inconsistencies for themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/162 "2012-10-02T17:35:54Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I have a question for you, (or any other ex-Mormon who served a mission) TokyoBayer. > > Have you ever contacted any of the still-practicing Mormons that you converted and/or baptized while serving on your mission and told them that you have now discovered the LDS Church to be a massive fraud, and encouraged them to investigate the various inconsistencies for themselves? I have not. I really didn’t keep in contact with my converts very well. There was one family that I sent Christmas packages to for a few years. And really, I moved into their area right after their conversion. There is one entire family that I converted. 18 months later, I was heartbroken to learn that the ward had been dissolved and that my converts were not attending any other wards. I’d had high hopes for them. Fortunately for them, by now they’ve probably completely forgotten their brief experiment with Mormonism. Most of my other converts were the 9-year-old children or the teenage friends of Mormon families. They probably would have been baptized (and eventually become inactive) with or without my efforts. Even if they hadn’t, they would have ended up as members-of-record of another Christian denomination. As an ex-Mormon atheist, it is not my duty to spread atheism “to the isles of the sea.” And I wouldn’t exactly feel proud if I could persuade one of my converts that we had been wrong, only to have him become a JW instead. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/163 "2012-10-02T18:02:10Z")
I was under the impression that it was pretty common for missionaries to keep in contact with their converts, often becoming somewhat close friends, even if just in a penpal kind of a way… ## Virtually all of my childhood friends (as well as all of my brothers-in-law, and all of my nephews) have served missions, and that is what I based my observations above on; Obviously not _all_ missionaries are going to develop lifelong bonds of friendship with _all_ of their converts, but around here from what I can tell, it seems fairly common to keep in touch, as I imagine the internet makes it easier than ever to do so. When I told my parents I wasn’t going on a mission, it had an impact on them that is hard to explain, and I am sure that they are still somewhat hurt and disappointed, now over 25 years later. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/164 "2012-10-02T18:11:20Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I have a question for you, (or any other ex-Mormon who served a mission) TokyoBayer. > > Have you ever contacted any of the still-practicing Mormons that you converted and/or baptized while serving on your mission and told them that you have now discovered the LDS Church to be a massive fraud, and encouraged them to investigate the various inconsistencies for themselves? I’m Facebook friends with a family that I baptized. The dad is in the Stake Presidency (a mid-level lay position in the Mormon church). He regularly posts really glurgy stuff and cheesy pics of Jesus on his Facebook wall, so I know anything negative I had to say probably wouldn’t be appreciated. And honestly, he’s probably better off within the church than outside of it. He lives in an economically depressed developing nation and hasn’t had regular employment for decades. The church provides him a support network, connections, and probably a decent amount of self-esteem that he didn’t have when he couldn’t support his family. I talked to the family on the phone a few years back when I was doubting but before I had become convinced the whole thing was a sham. The mom was distressed that I wasn’t attending church but I’m glad I didn’t elaborate my reasons for doubting. I mean, if they really wanted to know why I didn’t believe I’d tell them, but they are so enmeshed in the church now that I think they’d be better off without any more meddling on my part. Plus, there is very little information on the web on these topics in Spanish. I wouldn’t even know where they could read about this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/165 "2012-10-02T18:39:47Z")
I’ve had a conversation with one of my old companions. Actually, I tried to avoid the topic but he kept pressing the issue, so I sent him this: > [@Rhodes to a fellow missionary](#): > > I’m sorry this is so long, and in English. You asked why I am no longer a Mormon, and the question deserves a thorough reply. I will try to translate into re`o farane if you need me to. > > You don’t need to worry about me or to help me. My family is very happy with our decision, and we don’t fear eternity. > > I loved my mission in Tahiti, and Mataiea was one of my favorite wards. That’s where I learned to speak, to teach, to grate coconuts, to eat fafaru, and to work with a companion. > > I don’t regret any of those experiences. But they weren’t “spiritual” or supernatural experiences. Sometimes good things happen. A baby’s fever subsides, or the rain stops in time for a 5 km bike ride. If one’s confirmation bias is strong enough, one can ignore the times that babies stay sick, or mudslides kill families, or a woman is diagnosed with terminal cancer just hours after an “inspired” priesthood blessing promises her health. Stuff just happens, good and bad. It happens naturally, without needing gods or devils to cause it. > > Moroni 10 promises a spiritual experience. I have read the Book of Mormon dozens of times. I have prayed sincerely for a testimony that it is true. I never received a reply. Moroni lied. 13 years ago I was too embarrassed to admit that God had never spoken to me. But despite devoting my life to Mormonism for 30 years, my only spiritual experiences were wishful thinking. > > My departure from Mormonism began when I studied the facsimiles contained in the Book of Abraham. If Joseph Smith’s interpretation was correct, that would have been an amazing display of his gift as God’s translator of ancient Egyptian (and Reformed Egyptian) scripture. But the translation is all wrong. The papyrus does not mention Abraham. Joseph’s interpretations of the drawings are pure gibberish. So if the Book of Abraham is a proven hoax, then perhaps the Book of Mormon is a hoax also. That explains why there are no archaeological remains of steel, wheat, roads, wheels, horses, or populations of millions anywhere in the Americas. That explains why Native Americans have exactly zero Hebrew DNA. > > Mormonism today is pretty harmless, but its history is full of conflicting and evil doctrines. For example, Joseph taught girls as young as 14 years that by having sex with him they would earn exaltation for their families, but if they refused then he would be killed by an invisible angel with a flaming sword. Polygamy was Joseph’s excuse for his sexual affairs with children and with married women. Brigham Young taught that God was racist, and that apostates could be forgiven only if they were murdered. Brigham and Joseph were not “prophets with human weaknesses.” They were evil men who took advantage of their gullible followers to satisfy their greed, pride, and sexual appetites. > > So we have moved past Mormonism. We aren’t anti-Mormon, but we are capable of teaching our children what is right and moral without listening to men such as Boyd K Packer, Brigham Young, and Joseph Smith. He wasn’t impressed. Basically, I’m an apostate and that’s really sad because obviously the Church is still true and I’ve been blinded by Satan and I’m missing out on Eternal Life, etc. I wasn’t really trying to convince him of anything, just explain my position that I am happy with my choices and I did not come to the decision lightly. Occasionally another former missionary will find me on facebook, be excited to have reconnected, read a bit of my bio, and then apparently block or unfriend me (my religious status is “Apostate”). My wife is still in facebook contact with one of her converts. They chat once in a while and comment on each other’s photos. Surely she has noticed by now that my wife is no longer a Mormon. But she hasn’t asked, and my wife doesn’t give unsolicited details. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/166 "2012-10-02T19:08:42Z")
:becomes extremely jealous of Rhodes and his Tahitian mission: On the other hand, you spent two years in Tahiti and never went to the beach (without feeling insanely guilty). Heh. I pity you. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/167 "2012-10-02T19:20:14Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > :becomes extremely jealous of Rhodes and his Tahitian mission: > > On the other hand, you spent two years in Tahiti and never went to the beach (without feeling insanely guilty). Heh. I pity you. Two years with no swimming and no dating and doing my damnedest not to stare at tits. It wasn’t a vacation, but may be the most beautiful place to work. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/168 "2012-10-03T00:59:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Knock it off, **TokyoBayer**. Sorry. If she comes back to this thread or jumps into another one, I’ll simply take it to the Pit, which is what I should have done this time. It should make it easier for everyone as it seemed that other posters were also commenting about each other. I’ve got to run now, but I’ll comment on MBP’s question later. ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/169 "2012-10-03T04:21:33Z")
> [@Rhodes](#): > > Two years with no swimming and no dating and doing my damnedest not to stare at tits. It wasn’t a vacation, but may be the most beautiful place to work. ## Heh. I hear you. One of my areas had a Brazilian nude beach on the same bus route we took to the wardhouse. And a lot of the girls weren’t shy about dressing for the bus either. I had some mighty awkward hour long bus rides for a few months. To answer **MPB in Salt Lake** I kept in touch with some companions and converts for a few years. But I haven’t seen anyone in over a decade, when my mission president was set apart as a 70. And I haven’t shared even a short email in at least five years. Of course most of them are back in Brazil, and we drifted apart before electronic communication became common. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/170 "2012-10-03T17:22:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The logistics of such an arrangement are somewhat mystifying to me. > > Do ALL faithful Mormons get their own planet? Or is it only the men? If women get their own planets too, do Mormons also get interplanetary travel so they can visit their spouses? > > Are the planets inhabited, and if so, by whom? Non-Mormons? Back to the OP, I had forgotten [President Paternoster’s blog post on the subject](http://stakepresident.blogspot.com/2012/06/president-paternoster-corrects-prophet.html). The part about getting your own planet (or universe) isn’t specifically spelled out, but he describes how God was able to get his own planets (or universe) by following the same path that faithful Mormons are following now. To support his claims he uses an **AprilR** -approved source: [The King Follett Sermon](http://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/171 "2012-10-04T10:16:17Z")
I’ve posted this previously, but for my mission, I’m one of the few who had negative numbers. I was in Japan right during the explosion of baptisms in the Land of Rising Sun. The Tokyo temple had just been dedicated in 1980 by the prophet Spenser Kimball who declared that the Lord had told him that this was the time for Japan, when the multitudes would join the faith. And they did. There were thousands and thousands who were signing up on the dotted line. Our teachers at the MTC (Missionary Training Center) who had been there during this time were all so excited that we would be going over at this special time. They were there for the beginning, as we were to help continue. Most were in the Tokyo missions, but even the humble Fukuoka mission was part of this great and exciting time. But there was just one teeny, tiny problem. In spite of the tens of thousands of new members, there wasn’t a lot of growth in meeting attendance. My first branch had 15 people coming, in a city with four full time missionaries who had been there a decade. Something was clearly wrong. The architect of this growth and General Authority for East Asia, Elder Kikuchi, sprang into action. We had area conferences where he would come and harangue us for not getting the numbers. We were lacking in faith. We were not fulling the promise from a living prophet to the Japanese people. We were not up to the standards of those perfect elders who had graced the blessed ground. OK, not quite those words, but we got the message. It’s funny. I had grown up with complete faith and trust in the General Authorities, those men who regularly talked with God. And I sat in the back of a basketball court, on wobbly metal folding chairs with my mind simply refusing to form the thoughts it so desperately wanted to say: “This guy is full of shit.” When it crashed, it crashed hard. Kikuchi was [del]fired[/del] reassigned to a desk job back in HQ where he could be watched more carefully. A few months later, the replacement came over and there were bunch more area conferences. This time, we had a new mission (no pun intended). The system was overloaded. Well over 90% of all the people who had been baptized in the previous five years were completely “inactive.” There were branches with several thousand members of record, and 16 people showing up. You can’t even begin to know where to start to fellowship. From [here](http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=main&wid=109) No. Year Members Annual Growth Rate 1 1976 27,516 2 1978 31,948 7.45% 3 1980 45,958 17.98% 4 1982 65,682 17.67% 5 1984 70,998 3.89% So the new plan was to track down all these people and ask if if they wouldn’t agree to a “no harm, no fault” approach. We’d simply cancel their baptism, and it would like it had never happened. They could drink and smoke, and no one would bug them about that 10%. Most of them had been rushed into joining without knowing what was really involved. In a classic bait and switch routine, they were promised friendship with foreigners, no mention of the WoW or the other pesky commandments and then once they were actually in, the _gaijin_ foreigners would go on to other [del]targets[/del] “investigators” and the cycle would continue. Although I was still technically a believer and a missionary, it shouldn’t be surprising that I found my new calling and excelled in the role. No one out did me in the out doing process. I quickly made up for the four “Ins” with an magnitude great number of “Outs.” The funny thing is that the High Counsel was less impressed with my talents than the guys who had come back eight months earlier with more notched carved into their BoMs, although I left the Japanese church off in a stronger position when my time was up. For the four who joined – although we had actually taught them the entire lessons, I didn’t feel they were ready but my senior companion overrode my objections. They were all inactive within six months of when we left the area. I didn’t keep up with any of my companions, so I don’t know what has happened to them. I did meet one of the senior leaders in our mission. We were both in a bar in Roppongi, so there must be some more of us out there. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/172 "2012-10-04T12:02:11Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > It is a reference to either small beer, which was a beer similar to O’Douls with 1% alcohol or less, basically just enough to kill any bacteria or other things in the water used for the making of the drink or something very similar to Mugicha, which is basically barley tea. 1% alcohol will not have much effect on bacteria. The reason beer (including small beer) is safer in terms of pathogens, is that the water is boiled in the process of making it. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/173 "2012-10-04T12:50:44Z")
Well, I’ve been wading through this a bit, and the short (secular) answer seems to be: “Mormons doctrine teaches you could get your own planet someday if you rise high enough in the ranks to become a God equivalent, and if you wanted one. Because the public is likely to be underwhelmed by this assertion, it is typically not emphasized to the unconverted as a formal teaching, but neither has it been formally rejected by any LDS leaders to whom new revelations are given.” Is this about right? P.S. April R and other defenders of the faith: I’m not looking for a cite of doctrine to wade through. Seems like a pretty simple question. If you don’t want to answer it, don’t answer it. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/174 "2012-10-05T01:58:45Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > From [here](http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=main&wid=109) This is one of the best references for Mormon demographics, and it’s run by a true believing Mormon, unlike other places such as Mormon Think who seem to be cultural Mormons. > [@](#): > > So the new plan was to track down all these people and ask if if they wouldn’t agree to a “no harm, no fault” approach. :smack:“No harm, no foul” > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Well, I’ve been wading through this a bit, and the short (secular) answer seems to be: > > “Mormons doctrine teaches you could get your own planet someday if you rise high enough in the ranks to become a God equivalent, and if you wanted one. > Because the public is likely to be underwhelmed by this assertion, it is typically not emphasized to the unconverted as a formal teaching, but neither has it been formally rejected by any LDS leaders to whom new revelations are given.” This has been answered upstream. > [@Bartman](#): > > > [@Marley23](#): > > > > [A summary of Mormon commentary on this topic.](http://www.mrm.org/spirit-children-and-planets) [Another Mormon explains his version here.](http://www.mormondna.org/mormon-beliefs/mormons-planet-die.html) The notion appears to be that Mormons, who strive to be like God, can progress and after death can become gods themselves. The MRM site suggests that current Mormons find the teaching kind of embarrassing and are downplaying it. We have some Mormons and ex-Mormons on the board and I hope they’ll explain. > > That is a pretty good summary. And it is something the church used to talk about a lot. Once they realized it wasn’t a draw, but a scary crazy thing for non-members they go out of their way to all but deny it. From sometime in the 90s, the church decided to become mainstream and started to change the emphasis on which things it taught. For obvious reasons, the was one of the first teachings which needed to put into a back closet. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/175 "2012-10-05T23:10:07Z")
So, would Blood Atonement apply to the sin of Corporte Raiding? Crane ---
**Author:** ![ThisOneGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@ThisOneGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisOneGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/176 "2012-10-07T03:28:42Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > This is one of the best references for Mormon demographics, and it’s run by a true believing Mormon, unlike other places such as Mormon Think who seem to be cultural Mormons. :smack:“No harm, no foul” > > This has been answered upstream. > From sometime in the 90s, the church decided to become mainstream and started to change the emphasis on which things it taught. For obvious reasons, the was one of the first teachings which needed to put into a back closet. I’m gonna disagree with you on this part. I stopped going to church around 1985 or so, then started back occasionally around 2007 when my wife converted. The “As man is God once was, as God is man can become” doctrine was around when I was a kid (left as a teenager), and I’ve heard it in the last five years in sunday school and institute lessons. It isn’t on the front page, but hasn’t quite been put into the back closet. Now the blood atonement and Adam=God stuff that Rhodes likes to go on about, I haven’t heard those anywhere but here. It Brigham Young did say it (and it does sound like him), that stuff has been taken out of the back closet and buried in the yard at midnight. May go over to the BYU library some time and see if I can find it in the Journal of Discourses. Was amused to hear in General Conference today not once but twice to disregard people on the internet saying that past church leaders said things not aligned with current doctrine. Makes you wonder if they read the dope. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/177 "2012-10-07T03:53:36Z")
> [@ThisOneGuy](#): > > Was amused to hear in General Conference today not once but twice to disregard people on the internet saying that past church leaders said things not aligned with current doctrine. Makes you wonder if they read the dope. Heh. Can you expand on this (if you remember)? Did they say past church leaders WERE in line with current doctrine and we are a bunch of liars or did they say to just ignore the fact that past church leaders were doing a lot of crazy stuff? And, no need to dig around the library; I’m pretty sure the entire Journal of Discourses is online. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/178 "2012-10-07T04:21:22Z")
> [@ThisOneGuy](#): > > Was amused to hear in General Conference today not once but twice to disregard people on the internet saying that past church leaders said things not aligned with current doctrine. Makes you wonder if they read the dope. Was that today (Saturday)? I forgot it was Conference time again; good to know to avoid downtown this weekend. Here’s [speeches](http://www.lds.org/general-conference/sessions/2012/10?lang=eng)so far. It must have given them a break from talking about the scourge of internet pornography. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/179 "2012-10-07T14:34:30Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Heh. Can you expand on this (if you remember)? Did they say past church leaders WERE in line with current doctrine and we are a bunch of liars or did they say to just ignore the fact that past church leaders were doing a lot of crazy stuff? Both, of course, but more of 1.5, that we’re a bunch of liars. > [@](#): > > Both Andersen and Cook warned Mormons not to believe all the disparaging messages they read about their religion and its roots on the Internet. > > Reminding Latter-day Saints that church leaders are imperfect, Anderson said some members are shaken when they come across statements made by earlier prophets and apostles that seem out of step with the faith’s teachings. > > “Doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve,” he said. “It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk.” > > Cook said “some have immersed themselves in Internet materials that magnify, exaggerate, and, in some cases, invent shortcomings of early church leaders,” causing them to draw incorrect conclusions that can affect testimony. > > But he said it’s not too late for such Mormons. When members’ commitment is weakened, he said, they should immerse themselves in the scriptures and repent to be “spiritually renewed.” Following the link above for the conference talks, Anderson touches more on this, but with the typically Mormon deception. He first introduces a Hoffman forgery as an example of how falsehoods can drive people from the Church, then jumps right into how others are shaken by teachings of leaders of the last few decades which don’t seem right. This is where he talks of Doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. Going on, he brings out the Joseph Smith quote " I never told you I was perfect; but there is no error in the revelations" which unfortunately, he doesn’t explain how to handle the obvious errors in the revelations and doesn’t discuss Adam-God which Young claimed to be a revelation. No does he go over the documented changes in revelations given in the D&C and the BoM. But don’t worry your poor, pretty heads. Them Internets are just all liars. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816/180 "2012-10-08T15:39:56Z")
> [@ThisOneGuy](#): > > I’m gonna disagree with you on this part. I stopped going to church around 1985 or so, then started back occasionally around 2007 when my wife converted. The “As man is God once was, as God is man can become” doctrine was around when I was a kid (left as a teenager), and I’ve heard it in the last five years in sunday school and institute lessons. It isn’t on the front page, but hasn’t quite been put into the back closet. Yeah, it’s definitely still taught. Just unofficially. I doubt that it’s spelled out clearly in any lesson manuals (although I’ve said that about another topic only to have **Erdosain** prove me wrong) unless Monson is trying to bring it back after all of Hinkley’s efforts to deny it. My LDS friends still believe the doctrine and seem unaware that it’s a taboo topic. > [@](#): > > Now the blood atonement and Adam=God stuff that Rhodes likes to go on about, I haven’t heard those anywhere but here. It Brigham Young did say it (and it does sound like him), that stuff has been taken out of the back closet and buried in the yard at midnight. May go over to the BYU library some time and see if I can find it in the Journal of Discourses. I don’t care much about Adam-God. It’s blasphemous, but blasphemy isn’t a real sin. I only described it upthread because someone asked. But I confess I enjoy bringing up Blood Atonement. I think it shows that Brigham was a very bad man, and if Brigham was the Mouthpiece of God then his god is also a very bad man. > [@](#): > > Was amused to hear in General Conference today not once but twice to disregard people on the internet saying that past church leaders said things not aligned with current doctrine. Makes you wonder if they read the dope. I was only aware of one of those talks. I put this up on facebook: “Sorry, Mr Quentin L Cook, but I will not ‘repent’ for using the Internet to study history. Anyone making such an absurd demand obviously has something to hide.” It generated quite a stir among my LDS brothers and in-laws. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mormons-getting-their-own-planet-come-judgement-day-can-someone-elaborate-on-this/635816.md?page=10)