# Mornington Crescent Game (Beginners welcome) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 17, 2007, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347 "2007-06-17T08:21:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/1 "2007-06-17T08:21:30Z")
One of the SD’s MC experts, **Ianzin** , has offered to provide commentary and adjudicate for a MC game. I am pretty new to this, and nowhere near the level of the Brits, so hope some other international learners will join in. And the Brits of course!! I just completed Hobson-Forbe’s sixteen workshop series, so am keen to try out my new moves. A conservative start, I know, but here goes: **Clapham Junction**. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/2 "2007-06-17T09:01:56Z")
Not up to playing, but I’ll watch with interest! ---
**Author:** ![MerryMagdalen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@MerryMagdalen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MerryMagdalen)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/3 "2007-06-17T09:20:35Z")
St. James’ Park. (I’m American. I might be able to play beginner’s level.) ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/4 "2007-06-17T09:46:16Z")
> [@Merry Magdalen](#): > > St. James’s Park I can’t believe you made such an ill-advised move. You obviously didn’t read the transcripts of the Southeast Asian Mid-Regional Championships, when child prodigy Pundip Ali Khanma Lekha Singh won in three moves from just such an opening and response. **Mornington Crescent!** ---
**Author:** ![MerryMagdalen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@MerryMagdalen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MerryMagdalen)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/5 "2007-06-17T09:52:26Z")
I’m sorry, I believe that move is not permissable when the opening gambit is Clapham Junction. I’m sure you’ve read the transcripts of the Welsh regionals, 1935, yes? And I believe if you check your source, Singh started with Tufnell Park. ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/6 "2007-06-17T09:58:21Z")
[QUOTE=MerryMagdalen] I’m sorry, I believe that move is not permissable when the opening gambit is Clapham Junction. I’m sure you’ve read the transcripts of the Welsh regionals, 1935, yes? And I believe if you check your source, Singh started with Tufnell Park. [/QUOTE] Which is why Hobson-Forbes suggests opening with Clapham Junction. ---
**Author:** ![MerryMagdalen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@MerryMagdalen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MerryMagdalen)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/7 "2007-06-17T10:02:08Z")
Oh, of course. And also the Hampstead-West Hampstead loop maneuver. That was brilliant. Pure strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Etherman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@Etherman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Etherman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/8 "2007-06-17T11:02:43Z")
Which is why I would suggest Hackney Wick, in accordance with rule 35b ---
**Author:** ![bob\_loblaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@bob\_loblaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_loblaw)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/9 "2007-06-17T11:09:57Z")
in that case, i’ll offer **lloyd park** in a reverse **thames ditton** , _stipulating the saucier de worchestershire (et al) rule set, but with an **osterley** exception._ (see rule 518.16.2, section b, point 77 of the zanzibar corallary to the town shoes club edition, 2002.) ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Mood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@Blue\_Mood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Mood)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/10 "2007-06-17T12:50:34Z")
[QUOTE=bob\_loblaw] stipulating the saucier de worchestershire (et al) rule set, [/QUOTE] On behalf of all UK Mornington Crescent players, I will thank you not to mock our game with spouting nonsense about condiments. [QUOTE=MerryMagdalen] I’m sorry, I believe that move is not permissable when the opening gambit is Clapham Junction. I’m sure you’ve read the transcripts of the Welsh regionals, 1935, yes? And I believe if you check your source, Singh started with Tufnell Park. [/QUOTE] I’m impressed with your knowledge, but must add a clarification for the benefit of those who are not as familiar with the game’s subtleties: Singh did not start with Tufnell Park - that was his response to Turner’s starting with St James Park that **Happy Scrappy Hero Pup** was referring to. As the last legal move was\*\* Etherman’s\*\* Hackney Wick, I’ll play conservatively and respond with **Stratford**. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/11 "2007-06-17T13:24:43Z")
[QUOTE=Blue Mood] As the last legal move was\*\* Etherman’s\*\* Hackney Wick, I’ll play conservatively and respond with **Stratford**. [/QUOTE] Now, I’ve never played on a message board, before, and usually we have a map of the tube system in front of us (I am American), but this one is easy. I mean the only strategically viable move now would be **Kew Gardens**. That’s _mathematically_ certain. I mean serious players have all seen the proof of the superiority this kind of move in this situation, right? (what do they call it again? a ‘District Line fob’?) ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/12 "2007-06-17T13:39:07Z")
I’m tempted to straddle across to **Dollis Hill**. Don’t forget that this automatically makes the DLR (South of Mudchute) wild. ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/13 "2007-06-17T13:43:46Z")
[QUOTE=Jamaika a jamaikaiaké] Now, I’ve never played on a message board, before, and usually we have a map of the tube system in front of us (I am American), but this one is easy. I mean the only strategically viable move now would be **Kew Gardens**. That’s _mathematically_ certain. I mean serious players have all seen the proof of the superiority this kind of move in this situation, right? (what do they call it again? a ‘District Line fob’?) [/QUOTE] Sorry, but you’ve lost me. I just worked through the District Line Fob and got **Paddington**. My inexperience is showing! Can someone help, please? ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/14 "2007-06-17T14:01:17Z")
**Happy Scrappy Hero Pup** - good observation regarding Singh’s impressive win, but of course that match was played under Limit rules allowing seniors, juniors, professional and amateurs to all play in the same tournament, and as such was not ratified by the IMCC. In any case, although Singh’s win was certainly an impressive achievement for one so young, and withstood careful scrutiny at the time, it has since been proved that his opponent had a successful defence, albeit one that plays a little fast and loose with the concept of non-consecutive doubled letters (Maida Vale!, any, Snaresbrook, Fairlop (forced), Snaresbrook!!). I believe Wollcraft was the first to actually try such a ploy in an official match (North-European Invitational, Brussels, 2003). See Fungst & Unwin ‘Anomalous Strategy In Tournament Play’ for an amusing discussion of the ensuing protests and adjudication disputes folliowing this brilliant, if eccentric, interpretation of the rules. In the end they had to allow it, but of course it led to a small but significant revision of the NCDL rule. **Bob\_Loblaw** , nothing personal but I must echo **Blue Mood’s** polite request and ask you to either take the game seriously or leave this thread well alone. This game is meant to be at least partly instructional, for the benefit of **Lynne-42** and others, and inventing silly nonsense about condiments isn’t going to help anyone. **Lynne-42** : fairly conventional play so far, and nothing wrong with that! Note that **Blue Mood** opted to play Stratford. Can you see why s/he chose Stratford and not, say, the seemingly more appropriate Bethnal Green or Mile End? (Hint: refer to your _Hobson’s Elementary Rules_ and think about your opening move). ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/15 "2007-06-17T14:07:49Z")
[QUOTE=lynne-42] Sorry, but you’ve lost me. I just worked through the District Line Fob and got **Paddington**. My inexperience is showing! Can someone help, please? [/QUOTE] Don’t worry, it’s a very well-known beginner’s error. You’re thinking that Paddington must count as odd, but don’t forget your opponent is entitled to count from the _other end of the same line_ unless stirrups have been declared (which they haven’t). This is why **Jamaika a jamaikaiaké** went for the much superior Kew Gardens. Amongst other things, this effectively blocks motion west across water for two moves… unless you can think of a fairly well-known ruse that will help you. (Hint: refer to your Chatsworth & Rigby, if you have a copy, and have a browse through their excellent section devoted to split / non-split play on the District and Circle lines - but I warn you, this does get a bit technical.) ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/16 "2007-06-17T14:08:12Z")
[QUOTE=ianzin] **Lynne-42** : fairly conventional play so far, and nothing wrong with that! Note that **Blue Mood** opted to play Stratford. Can you see why s/he chose Stratford and not, say, the seemingly more appropriate Bethnal Green or Mile End? (Hint: refer to your _Hobson’s Elementary Rules_ and think about your opening move). [/QUOTE] Do you mean Hobson’s, p. 236 on Stratford Diminishings? I thought I was better at this than I am. Sorry, but I still can’t quite make the connection. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_loblaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@bob\_loblaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_loblaw)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/17 "2007-06-17T14:10:50Z")
well, even though the worchestershire/ osterley rules may be in dispute, there is no doubting that a **kew** / **dollis** / **paddington** response to to a **lloyd park** must result in, at a minimum, 64 non-winning plays, or a forfeited game. (m.c. baloney, iberian edition, chapter 3. {2004}) but i am willing to consider a full **bethnal green** restart, given _moscow '74_ consideration. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/18 "2007-06-17T14:13:53Z")
[QUOTE=lynne-42] Do you mean Hobson’s, p. 236 on Stratford Diminishings? I thought I was better at this than I am. Sorry, but I still can’t quite make the connection. [/QUOTE] You’re trying to run before you can walk! It’s much simpler than that. The point is that since there is more than one ‘Clapham’ station, it is obviously the case that no player can deploy Windles, whether or not this is explicitly stated. This being so, a play such as Bethnal Green would be more or less sure to lead to a Fairlop Loop… see? (Stratford Diminishings _could_ be relevant, but you’re delving into advanced technicalities that don’t really have any bearing on the game thus far). ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/19 "2007-06-17T14:13:59Z")
Waterloo International, as per the Prideaux rule of 1927 which allows one to cross the Thames against the flow of traffic, except on a Sunday when they must change at Monument first. Of course, since Waterloo International is a Triple Entente (being a British Rail station, London Underground Station, and Eurostar Station), there is no penalty for a transfer to the DLR, provided same is undertaken at either Bank or Canary Wharf, unless the player is planning to invoke the HM Customs & Excise Rule and play Le Gare du Nord by re-routing through Victoria Station, in which case the DLR is only available on alternate weekends- except when one of those days would be a public holiday, in which case the Friday or the Monday may be substituted instead, at the player’s discretion. All this was a result of the Webley & Scott play-offs in '42, which Beaumont commented upon at length in his revised edition of the rules- now sadly out of print, but worthwhile if one can obtain a copy. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347/20 "2007-06-17T14:30:13Z")
[QUOTE=bob\_loblaw] there is no doubting that a **kew** / **dollis** / **paddington** response to a **lloyd park** … [/QUOTE] ‘Lloyd Park’? There is no such station. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-game-beginners-welcome/408347.md?page=2)