# Mornington Crescent question **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 23, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794 "2010-09-23T17:52:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/61 "2010-09-27T22:41:07Z")
Oval was good, I admit, and many players would fall into the Thursby Trap, e.g. falling for Stonebridge Park, not realising that the next player can decline nibs and move _south_ to Lambeth _North_ (there are other possible lines but they all come out pretty much the same). However, I will instead play… **Pontoon Dock**! * * * **Giles** , I think you’ll find that **Gundyayev** has now formally withdrawn his so-called ‘proof’. There’s a rather brief announcement on his website to the effect that he is ‘refining’ it and hopes to re-submit it next year. The problem, as I understand it, is that when he wrote his software he included Shepherd’s Bush _twice_ (because it appears on the Central Line _and_ the Ham & City), thereby skewing his totals and rendering the final third of his analysis a complete nonsense. Gantt offers a rather wry but very amusing commentary on the whole sorry business in the last Winter edition of the Henley MC Gazette, if you’re interested. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/62 "2010-09-27T23:02:00Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > Oval was good, I admit, and many players would fall into the Thursby Trap, e.g. falling for Stonebridge Park, not realising that the next player can decline nibs and move _south_ to Lambeth _North_ (there are other possible lines but they all come out pretty much the same). > > However, I will instead play… > > **Pontoon Dock**! Oh dear, this reminds of an extemely funny story. I was at the pub and me and some mates were engaging in a bit of Team MC to pass the time. Naturally we had money on the match. My cousin Geoff (for my team) had just played **Charing Cross** , and he was being very coy about it, considering we were in the rounds of eight and double nibs had just expired. As any mildly experienced MC player would know that **Charing Cross** is considered absoutely lethal under those circumstance. Almost instantly our pal Henry called out **Pontoon Dock** being the obvious answer and one that produces double charges. Needless to say, Henry was quite pleased, having a good larf at Geoff, whom he thought had played a temendous blunder. But Geoff was not so unwise. The clock read 12:03 and in facct it was no longer Thursday but had become Friday and the month had changed as well, from April to May…Blinder’s Time! Geoff had completely duped Henry. It wasn’t unitl his temmates let out an audible groan and Geoff answered for his team with, “Neasden” that Henry realized he had been had. I must say that they requisite pints that Henry had to purchase for the lot was among the tastiest I had ever had. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/63 "2010-09-27T23:09:54Z")
Alas, I fear the schoolboy humour upwelling and I have to say it: **Mudchute**. In my defence, dear old Willie Rushton would have agreed with me, though the purists would certainly say that’s no excuse. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/64 "2010-09-27T23:52:01Z")
I see your repeated vowel and offer repeated vowel+consonant: **Debden**. ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/65 "2010-09-28T03:49:11Z")
Loved the history, **Gangster Octopus** - so many memories! No other game can claim the characters which fill the MC history books. Does anyone remember Carlyle-Smythe in the 1975 Oxford/Cambridge clash? I still laugh every time I think about it. Much as I would love to triumph with a fourth\*\* Paddington\*\*, it is now obvious that you lot have stymied my Jade Quad - but that still leaves me the Ambrose Ambit. Declaring Triple vowel, double consonant: **Woodford**. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/66 "2010-09-28T06:20:07Z")
I declare hassocks and decline to ruff motion West, hence leading rather inevitably to: **Chalfont & Latimer**! * * * **Lynne** - good move, faintly inaccurate submission. May I offer a gentle correction? It’s only a _double_ consonant if the letters occur consecutively. What you have there is a _repeated_ consonant. BTW, MC trivia fans, the Ambrose Ambit is the only known move by which a player can transition through all three of the ‘Queen-’ stations without actually stopping at any of them! At least that’s according to Coronel in ‘The MC Armchair Miscellany’ (Crescent Press, 92 edition). He offers a short analysis and cites the only two instances of this actually having been achieved in ranking tournaments. (Tensi managed it at the 2001 Masters in Marrakech, as did the great Karakolev way back at the 1951 European Team Championships in Salzburg.) The Zephyr Shift comes close, obviously, but as two of the ‘Queens’ are in Brent the player woud have to stop on at least one of them or automatically foul his next move. ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/67 "2010-09-28T12:49:57Z")
I have now spent three hours struggling through Hanson & Eagles, 2001, chapter 3, Declarations and Declines (lets face it, it isn’t an easy read) trying to work out EXACTLY what happens in the combined ‘hassocks and decline to ruff motion West’ declaration mode. This is only a Friendly, isn’t it? Would it be alright for me to ask for an explanation of the implications of a **Chalfont & Latimer** play, when I want to try and force Delays on the Circle Line. I have shown my hand now, I know. Could have had MC in five. But I am just out of my depth here. P.S. Gentle correction accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/68 "2010-09-28T13:05:03Z")
Because it is the last minute of my lunch hour, I can play **Heathrow Terminal 4** , re-doubled, without fear of more than 3 reprisals. ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/69 "2010-09-28T13:23:47Z")
Oh wow! What a classy play! I’ll wait and see what others do with that! ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/70 "2010-09-28T13:49:08Z")
**Lynne** - H&E aren’t really your best source when revising declarations and so on. They know their stuff, sure, but as you’ve discovered they tend to go into far more detail than is strictly necessary. I think they clutter up what are essentially quite straightforward and elegant aspects of MC theory with too many examples and commentaries. Try _Brewster On Middle Game MC Strategy_ for a succinct explanation of the three main classes of declaration you’re ever likely to meet in real-life play, plus an neatly tabulated summary of the various decline options. All his strategic stuff is sound, if a little uninspired. Some prefer _MC My Way!_ by the wonderful Kristi Kroto, which is without doubt an excellent book. However, she does leave out the DLR options, and some of her commentaries on the openings are a little ‘shaky’ to say the least (Becontree in a straightforward Chavoisier Advance? I don’t _think_ so!) As regards my move, **Maus** has plainly been trying (and succeeding!) to build up a strategic advantage west of Oxford Street, forcing defensive lines along green and blue (as evidenced by **Dead Cat** ’s cautious use of terminal 4). However, as we’ve already had motion south of a non-played park, clearly I could either accept the ruff over motion west and hope for some end-game advantage from my dominant parallel lines, or decline this in favour of keeping my nibs options for later use, which may well come in handy given that both Oval and Theydon Bois have already been played. I went for the latter, although I expect **Maus** has a ruse or two up his sleeve that I haven’t spotted! I hope that makes things much clearer. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/71 "2010-09-28T14:59:17Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > **Lynne** - it’s true that winning ‘Hamston’ Gambit examples are rare, but they do exist in the literature. Fass won her quarter-final match in Zagreb in '83, and against the formidable Snaresby-Houghton too, although to be fair he was getting on a bit by then and no longer the force he once was. Also, ‘Biffy’ Worthington won with it against Assioto in the third round of the 2001 Geneva Masters, which although not on the official tour as such is still a well-regarded comp that attracts some pretty strong players. > > Actually, for MC trivia fans, Worthington is the only player known to have played the Hamston against the same opponent in three different consecutive tournaments! He and Nezhmetdinov clashed in the Euro Championship qualifiers _and_ the French Open in '03, and then _again_ the following January in the Tel Aviv Invitational event. Three Hamston openings, and three straight defeats for poor Biffy! I don’t think he used it much after that. I feel obligated to point out (for fairness) that the only reason Worthington could accomplish the hat trick was that the Saudi team boycotted the Tel Aviv Invitational that year, and indeed every year. He _should_ have played against al-Hasim in the first round, after that worthy’s excellent showing in the preceeding Levant Triples (a now rarely used tournament format of three-person teams). The Arabian peninsula has produced some of the strongest players against the Hamston Gambit in the last ten years. ETA: Maybe it was the 2003 Masters in Marrakech, not the 2003 Levant Triples. Thanks **ianzin** for the mental prompt. Does anybody have the 2003 Mideast results handy? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/72 "2010-09-28T15:06:01Z")
There’s a lot of kibitzing here (and I’m guilty of that too), but I think the last move was **Dead Cat** playing **Heathrow Terminal 4** , re-doubled. I think the only constructive response to that is **Heathrow Terminal 5** , but undoubled. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/73 "2010-09-28T15:12:12Z")
The obvious follow-up is Baker Street with a reprisal on **Dead Cat**. But that gives away too much position for too little gain. I think I’ll go for the high-risk move and attempt the OP’s suggestion, **Aldwych Station**. As this is a Recreational Friendly and nowhere near an International Test, I think such an experimental move would be allowed, especially with this game still in an early innings. ---
**Author:** ![Wargamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Wargamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wargamer)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/74 "2010-09-28T15:18:25Z")
I’m sorry to be late, but I was stuck in a fiendishly clever **Canada Water** retrenchment in my local MC League. Based on the sound drubbing I took there, I’ll gamble a bit on and anti-clockwise stirrups declaration off No Reprisals (yet) from **Heathrow 4** and go with a District Line Diversion to **Earl’s Court.** Although, I am exposing a bit of colonial impudence with that play, I admit… ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/75 "2010-09-28T15:59:30Z")
> [@lynne-42](#): > > Loved the history, **Gangster Octopus** - so many memories! No other game can claim the characters which fill the MC history books. Does anyone remember Carlyle-Smythe in the 1975 Oxford/Cambridge clash? I still laugh every time I think about it. Thanks, I am such a middling Cresenter but I do love the history, it is so colorful. Regarding Carlyle-Smythe, I was far too young at the time to make sense of what at happened, but I do fondly recall my father’s hearty laugh when he read the recap of it in the paper. Wasn’t that the match where probably the most famous MC Columnist ever, Jonathan Windsor, writing for the Sun famously described the play of Carlyle-Smyth as “straight out of the insane asylum and straight into our fondest memories.” ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/76 "2010-09-28T16:22:02Z")
Good eye, **ianzin**. If I’ve been that obvious, I may have to rethink my strategy. With the new fiber lay going in along the Northern Line, and stirrups called, I think it’s obvious what my next move should be. **West Brompton** ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/77 "2010-09-28T16:37:43Z")
Hah! **East Acton**! I think that reduces the options. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/78 "2010-09-28T17:06:03Z")
Whoah… sorry **Giles** , I know this is just a friendly, but we can’t allow _East_ Acton, not directly after an opposite point of compass play. Perhaps you overlooked that **Lynne** played Paddington three times, ergo a triple play has featured in the previous 25 moves, ergo for consistency the so-called ‘compass’ stations must be non-consecutive. Sorry and all, but maybe you’d like to take another crack at it. BTW, nice one, **Maus**! You’ve been reading up on the Azimuth Defence, if I’m not very much mistaken. Shrewd. Very shrewd. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/79 "2010-09-28T17:13:38Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > Whoah… sorry **Giles** , I know this is just a friendly, but we can’t allow _East_ Acton, not directly after an opposite point of compass play. Perhaps you overlooked that **Lynne** played Paddington three times, ergo a triple play has featured in the previous 25 moves, ergo for consistency the so-called ‘compass’ stations must be non-consecutive. Sorry and all, but maybe you’d like to take another crack at it. Well, if you insist, though I thought it was technically correct. A similar play ( **North Acton** ) was allowed under almost identical circumstances in the 1927 Buenos Aires Invitational Tournament. You must allow **Acton Central** , however. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794/80 "2010-09-28T17:16:02Z")
Not only perfectly legal, but IMHO a much better move anyway, **Giles**. Well done! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mornington-crescent-question/554794.md?page=5)