# Moron hillbilly's in bumfuck Virginia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 18, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744 "2015-12-18T00:47:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/101 "2015-12-19T01:24:51Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > The Pledge of Allegiance didn’t specify WHICH deity. That’s the issue here. 1. Allah is the same deity as Jews and Christians worship, the God of Abraham (though Christians have a slightly different understanding of his nature). 2. The Pledge of Allegiance does specify, since it doesn’t allow for polytheists or athesists. “God,” without qualification, is the god of the monothesists, the God of Abraham. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/102 "2015-12-19T02:37:50Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It’s certainly an over-reaction, but the teacher could have picked something other than the Islamic statement of faith for the students to copy. Should have, in fact. It was probably the easist and most common written Arabic that the teacher could find. I’m Christian, fairly devout, and it wouldn’t have bothered me. To me it would just be words, calligraphy practice. It wouldn’t mean I believed what I was writing, any more that being an actor playing a villian would mean that I would want to do bad things. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > 1. Allah is the same deity as Jews and Christians worship, the God of Abraham (though Christians have a slightly different understanding of his nature). > > 2. The Pledge of Allegiance does specify, since it doesn’t allow for polytheists or athesists. “God,” without qualification, is the god of the monothesists, the God of Abraham. A lot of people of my parent’s generation didn’t grow up saying “under God” in the pledge anyway. I have a schoolbook of my mother’s that has the pledge in the front cover, and God isn’t there. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/103 "2015-12-19T03:12:00Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > You don’t teach _ **Christianity** _ by making students recite the _ **Hail Mary** _… Oh, dear! That opens a whole new kettle of fish, doesn’t it? 😉 > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > 1. Allah is the same deity as Jews and Christians worship, the God of Abraham (though Christians have a slightly different understanding of his nature). HAH! Shows what YOU know! > [@Chicago Tribune](#): > > If Wheaton College professor Larycia Hawkins had simply donned a headscarf to support her Muslim neighbors without explaining herself, she still might be administering final exams this week. > > Instead, Hawkins, a tenured political science professor at the private evangelical Christian college, proclaimed on social media that Christians and Muslims share the same God and was suspended by the college. [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-wheaton-college-professor-larycia-hawkins-20151216-story.html](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-wheaton-college-professor-larycia-hawkins-20151216-story.html) ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/104 "2015-12-19T03:19:09Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > You don’t teach Christianity by making students recite the Hail Mary It would probably be the Nicene Creed that was on the _written_ test. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/105 "2015-12-19T03:20:01Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Oh, dear! That opens a whole new kettle of fish, doesn’t it? 😉 > > HAH! Shows what YOU know! [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-wheaton-college-professor-larycia-hawkins-20151216-story.html](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-wheaton-college-professor-larycia-hawkins-20151216-story.html) “More knowledgeable that the Wheaton College administration” is a pretty low bar to clear. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/106 "2015-12-19T03:29:16Z")
Used to live down the street from it and “More knowledgeable that the Wheaton College administration, faculty, and (especially) the entire student body” is still a pretty low bar to clear, but those kids were fun to troll and play “Dueling Bible Quotes” with. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/107 "2015-12-19T03:38:11Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > As Khatt is a highly developed art and has the specific and often taught forms, it is safe to speak for all arabophones as well as anyone who is not so unlearned to confuse ordinary signs with the arts of the calligraphy. Well, I just spoke to an Arabic speaking friend, and he says you DON’T speak for him. And he says you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/108 "2015-12-19T03:39:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Nobody made the kids declare a belief in jack shit. It was a bit of calligraphy-not a magic spell that bound their souls to the words they were assigned to write. Do you honestly believe the teacher was trying to trick them into professing belief in another religion?? It’s amazing how angry you get when you and your argument are both stupid. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/109 "2015-12-19T04:16:54Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > The Pledge of Allegiance didn’t specify WHICH deity. {…} It’s curious that one would name their god God and then claim that “God” doesn’t specify which deity is being referenced. Could ya show me which of the Congress persons that changed the Pledge were unsure exactly which deity “God” was referring to in the Pledge? (Not to not mention that the folks that pushed for the change don’t seem to be unclear at all about which deity they were adding to the Pledge.) CMC fnord ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/110 "2015-12-19T04:18:16Z")
Personally, I think if the idea is to gain some understanding of this particular group of foreigners, the exercise was appropriate. They are Muslims, their faith is a very large part of the culture (maybe even more than evangelicalism in VA), and the art and the faith go together in a connect-the-dots, understandable kind of way. I learned about this story from Fox News, of all places. They showed a clip of one of the students asking, “why couldn’t they have taught us how to write ‘hello’ or something instead?” Because, silly teenager, “hello” does not have the kind of dignity or meaning to inspire being expressed in calligraphy. The statement of faith does, and it is what a lot of people in this part of the world are all about. I think the charge that the teacher was indoctrinating the students is rubbish. If you want to understand this piece of geography, its religion and history, this seems like a good example to me. But I am no expert, and I believe evangelicalism is next to anti-intellectualism, so take it with a grain of salt if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/111 "2015-12-19T05:31:58Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, I just spoke to an Arabic speaking friend, and he says you DON’T speak for him. And he says you are wrong. Why are you being so aggressive? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/112 "2015-12-19T09:39:02Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It’s certainly an over-reaction, but the teacher could have picked something other than the Islamic statement of faith for the students to copy. Should have, in fact. > [@Baker](#): > > It was probably the easist and most common written Arabic that the teacher could find. I’m going to go with a default supposition that the Shahada was the only example of Arabic text (calligraphic or otherwise) in the workbook. I’ll adjust my opinion on that point as new information surfaces to make that seem advisable. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/113 "2015-12-19T10:27:34Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, I just spoke to an Arabic speaking friend, and he says you DON’T speak for him. And he says you are wrong. Wonderful that you have ’ found’ an arabic speaking friend down the street to quote on the message board. Perhaps some footwear can join now to argue… I am happy to share with this message board that has known me for over ten years that the idea of restaurant signs as the calligraphy is laughable as a general thing. Of course like all things it is without doubt some example can exist, but I do not have any doubt you have and had no idea about actual calligraphy. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/114 "2015-12-19T10:33:34Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > ETA: Thank you **Ramira** , yes, that is a good example of an alternate phrase that would be more widely accepted. (Plus then you can link also to how it gets referenced in rock music…) I have [no idea about the basmalla](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basmala) and rock music. At least it is harder for those who seek offense to get offended… It is only the statement of " In the Name of God the most merciful, the most compassionate." Indeed it is more common than the shahada in both the decoration and in statements, we’re supposed to say it before every important act (what is an important act, ah voila). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/115 "2015-12-19T13:14:45Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Perhaps some footwear can join now to argue… Can you explain what you mean by this? > [@](#): > > Of course like all things it is without doubt some example can exist… Thank you for making my point for me! ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/116 "2015-12-19T13:46:57Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > From a Washington Post article on the story: “‘These children were deceived when they were told it was calligraphy,’ the parent, Kimberly Herndon, told NBC29 television. ‘This is not calligraphy, this is a language.’” > > Isn’t calligraphy essentially artistic writing. You know, of words. Which when strung together form language. Yes, you’re correct. And good lord, people are ridiculously stupid. I’m an atheist, FFS, and wouldn’t be upset if my spawn wrote that as part of a world religions course. (Nor would I be upset if someone wrote something from the Old Testament in Hebrew, or from a Hindu religious text in Sanskrit.) > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > …I believe evangelicalism is next to anti-intellectualism… I think a good number of the people quoted in the story are proving your point. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/117 "2015-12-19T14:11:37Z")
Hey, there are other ways to teach Arabic calligraphy! Why look, here’s the pledge of allegiance embedded in the American flag! [http://everitte.org/2012/01/04/the-american-flag-in-colour/](http://everitte.org/2012/01/04/the-american-flag-in-colour/) On the other hand, that doesn’t teach anyone fuck-all about others’ religions. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/118 "2015-12-19T15:40:54Z")
As an orthodox atheist (born into Catholicism) I have zero problem with this. As a matter of fact I am educating my child on world religions, which includes reading books we don’t believe in, and reciting prayers that make no sense to us. It’s called cultural literacy. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/119 "2015-12-19T16:00:28Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Hey, there are other ways to teach Arabic calligraphy! Why look, here’s the pledge of allegiance embedded in the American flag! > > [http://everitte.org/2012/01/04/the-american-flag-in-colour/](http://everitte.org/2012/01/04/the-american-flag-in-colour/) You don’t remember the fallout from that Coca-Cola commercial with “America, the Beautiful” sung in different languages, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744/120 "2015-12-19T16:30:49Z")
Here’s something interesting I learned from a friend who lives in that part of Virginia: public elementary schools in Augusta county participate in the [Weekday Religious Education](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekday_Religious_Education) (WRE) program. This program is described as “non-denominational” but that seems to mean that it’s not a specific Christian denomination. WRE apparently provides instruction on Christianity and maybe Judaism as it relates to Christianity, but not other world religions. WRE is a released-time program not held on school grounds and parents are able to opt out of it, but when I was looking up more information about this I found that there had been problems in the past with parents being pressured to keep their kids in WRE, students who didn’t participate being bullied, and a lack of alternative programming for those not going to WRE classes. (See [Slate](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2005/02/bible_belt_upside_the_head.html) and Charlottesville weekly [The Hook](http://www.readthehook.com/95205/cover-bible-schools-how-waynesboro-students-get-religion).) A more recent article in the [Staunton News Leader](http://www.newsleader.com/story/news/local/2015/08/10/staunton-school-board-meeting-tonight-weekday-religious-education-continued/31409899/) reported that the school board had voted over the summer to continue WRE, and that for the past several years there has been an environmental science program offered for students not participating in WRE. I suspect that many of the parents objecting to the lesson on Islam were fine with their kids receiving Christian instruction through WRE. But while I consider this hypocritical, it also makes a kind of sense – these parents do have experience with people using the schools to promote a particular religion to children, and may not believe that a lesson about Islam would really be a neutral sort of “Here’s what people who practice this religion believe” thing and not “Here’s what you should believe.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moron-hillbillys-in-bumfuck-virginia/740744.md?page=7)