# Morons foiled in plot to assassinate Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 26, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314 "2008-08-26T15:27:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/1 "2008-08-26T15:27:13Z")
A bunch of methhead white supremacists have apparently been foiled in a half-assed, brainless plot to [shoot Barack Obama](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2623571/Plot-to-kill-Barack-Obama-uncovered.html) at his acceptance speech on thursday. > [@](#): > > One of the group said he was “going to shoot Obama”, who is in Denver, Colorado, for the Democratic National Convention, “from a high vantage point using a rifle sighted at 750 yards”. > > Police said that one of the suspects “was directly asked if they had come to Denver to kill Obama. He responded in the affirmative”. > > The shooting was planned for Thursday, when Mr Obama is set to accept the nomination as the Democratic Party’s presidential candidate for the November election at the 75,000-seat Invesco stadium. > > Tharin Gartrell, 28, who was wanted on numerous warrants, was arrested on Sunday after police found two high-powered rifles, boxes of ammunition, a rifle scope, a bullet-proof vest, walkie-talkies and methamphetamine in a rented truck he was driving. > > Gartrell then led police to a hotel, where a second man, Shawn Robert Adolph, 33, tried to jump out of a sixth-storey window. After landing on an awning and trying to escape with a broken ankle, Adolph, who had a handcuff ring and was wearing a swastika, according to reports, was eventually arrested. > > An associate of Gartrell and Adolph, Nathan Johnson, 32, and his girlfriend, Natasha Gromek, were also arrested. Johnson is understood to have told authorities that the two men “planned to kill Barack Obama at his acceptance speech.” Although I’m glad they were caught, it’s hard to take these idiots seriously as any kind of legitimate threat. It sounds to me like a bunch of tweaker morons with big ambitions but no real coherent plan. It doesn’t sound like law enforcement is taking their assassination talk particularly seriously. Still, these walking, white trash sterotypes are better off in jail than out. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/2 "2008-08-26T15:36:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It sounds to me like a bunch of tweaker morons with big ambitions but no real coherent plan… [/QUOTE] Whatever gave you that idea? [QUOTE=Linked Article] However, federal sources have said that the incident may have had more to do with drugs than with a plot to assassinate Mr Obama, despite local police claims. The federal officials said that the verbal threats against Mr Obama were made during one of the arrests, but were not considered credible. “It could turn out that these were nothing but a bunch of knuckleheads, meth heads,” a US government source has claimed. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/3 "2008-08-26T15:37:22Z")
Watch out, they’re just the distractions!! And did the first guy really just ‘led’ the police to his other accomplices? I am picturing “Hi Thar…oops, is that the police with you!?” Talk about morons… On the other hand, it just sounds too easy. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/4 "2008-08-26T15:42:08Z")
Yeah, I’m not sure that someone who can’t operate a motor vehicle without drawing heat had much of a chance at getting past the Secret Service. Great entertainment, though. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/5 "2008-08-26T15:51:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Police said that one of the suspects “was directly asked if they had come to Denver to kill Obama. He responded in the affirmative”. Hey, just because you’re planning to kill someone doesn’t mean you have to be a _liar_. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/6 "2008-08-26T15:52:34Z")
I know nothing about guns, but isn’t a 750-yard shot kinda hard to make? Even with a tripod and all, how many people can hit a man-sized target at that range? On meth? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/7 "2008-08-26T16:00:30Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] I know nothing about guns, but isn’t a 750-yard shot kinda hard to make? Even with a tripod and all, how many people can hit a man-sized target at that range? On meth? [/QUOTE] You"re thinking about it too logically. You have to think about it like a half-wit who’s all amped up on crank. It probably made perfect sense to them.They would look for a nice tall building near Invesco Field somewhere (because the Secret Service would never think to secure any tall buildings) and git 'er done. You know how sometimes in movies when the cops are tracking some kind of assassins or terrorists and they say, “these guys are professionals.” These are not those guys. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/8 "2008-08-26T16:01:21Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] I know nothing about guns, but isn’t a 750-yard shot kinda hard to make? Even with a tripod and all, how many people can hit a man-sized target at that range? On meth? [/QUOTE] A trained rifleman with an appropriate weapon could try it with a reasonable likelihood of success. Joe Blow deer hunter; not very likely to hit his man. On meth, I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/9 "2008-08-26T16:22:05Z")
[QUOTE=John Carter of Mars] A trained rifleman with an appropriate weapon could try it with a reasonable likelihood of success. [/QUOTE] I hope this isn’t too much of a hijack, but this is interesting. Let’s say I’m a trained rifleman and regular citizen – maybe a former military sniper or whatever. Is an “appropriate weapon” legally available to me, or are we talking about the kind of thing that only the military types can have (legally). I don’t so much care about the specific type of gun – which would be meaningless to me anyway – but generally can you go into a decent gun shop and get a rifle which, in trained hands, would be capable of the shot? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/10 "2008-08-26T16:29:51Z")
Absolutely. There are a number of calibers that can reach that far. What you need to know is distance and drop. 750 yards is a long ways for a kill but certainly possible for an experienced marksman who’s familiar with the gun. You see it in hunting videos, but they’re marketed sensationalizing the fact that it _is_ a shot taken from beyond the range of your normal hunter. Many hunters will sight their guns in at 300 yards, if that gives you some indication. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/11 "2008-08-26T16:36:48Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] I hope this isn’t too much of a hijack, but this is interesting. Let’s say I’m a trained rifleman and regular citizen – maybe a former military sniper or whatever. Is an “appropriate weapon” legally available to me, or are we talking about the kind of thing that only the military types can have (legally). I don’t so much care about the specific type of gun – which would be meaningless to me anyway – but generally can you go into a decent gun shop and get a rifle which, in trained hands, would be capable of the shot? [/QUOTE] Word. Although many rifles are capable of this range with luck very few can do it with certainty. A 50 caliber is the only one that comes to mind that has the accuracy to pull it off regularly, and only in the hands of a frosty dog. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/12 "2008-08-26T16:44:55Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] You know how sometimes in movies when the cops are tracking some kind of assassins or terrorists and they say, “these guys are professionals.” These are not those guys. [/QUOTE] The dude with the blond hair looked like he found his purpose in life, and I’m not talking about helping little old ladies across the street. 😃 Still, having spent a lot of time with this type, I’m going to go ahead and call bullshit on the whole thing. These spaz’s couldn’t get organized enough to push over an old lady in a wheelchair, much less pull something like this off. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/13 "2008-08-26T16:51:14Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] The dude with the blond hair looked like he found his purpose in life, and I’m not talking about helping little old ladies across the street. 😃 Still, having spent a lot of time with this type, I’m going to go ahead and call bullshit on the whole thing. These spaz’s couldn’t get organized enough to push over an old lady in a wheelchair, much less pull something like this off. [/QUOTE] Agreed they could never come close to pulling it off, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t bullshit themselves into driving to Denver thinking they could try it. I don’t think the Senator was ever in any actual danger from these idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/14 "2008-08-26T16:57:32Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Agreed they could never come close to pulling it off, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t bullshit themselves into driving to Denver thinking they could try it. I don’t think the Senator was ever in any actual danger from these idiots. [/QUOTE] But… if a nutter with a couple more brain cells than these guys was able to get to a position where they could make a shot…even if they miss Obama, they’d be sure to hit _somebody_. And the ensuing panic would account for even more casualties. Shudder. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/15 "2008-08-26T17:15:39Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] But… if a nutter with a couple more brain cells than these guys was able to get to a position where they could make a shot…even if they miss Obama, they’d be sure to hit _somebody_. And the ensuing panic would account for even more casualties. Shudder. [/QUOTE] Hmm. I just did a stroll around the area via [del]Google maps[/del] astral projection, and it looks like there’s just a whole lotta parking lots and single-story buildings around the stadium. Not that a motivated nut couldn’t find a place to shoot from, but still. Maybe my shudder was premature. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/16 "2008-08-26T17:21:32Z")
Any place a motivated nut could find to shoot from would be secured by the SS. It’s their job to locate and secure any place where even the most highly motivated nut could have the most remote chance of getting a shot from. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/17 "2008-08-26T17:26:43Z")
You’d have to be a really good shooter with a really good rifle and really good ammo to make a 750 yard shot. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/18 "2008-08-26T18:17:51Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Agreed they could never come close to pulling it off, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t bullshit themselves into driving to Denver thinking they could try it. I don’t think the Senator was ever in any actual danger from these idiots. [/QUOTE] Well, like I said, I know these kind of people very well. I don’t doubt for a second they thought they would gain some kind of “fucked up noteriety” by doing so, but a twitch on crystal couldn’t get a bead on the broad side of a barn, much less a moving silouhette. Fucking twitches. Seven hundred and fifty yards. That shit kills me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/19 "2008-08-26T18:42:26Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] – but generally can you go into a decent gun shop and get a rifle which, in trained hands, would be capable of the shot? [/QUOTE] Probably a hijack, but - Any time you see the news report on a “sniper rifle”, it’s probably nothing more than a hunting rifle. I have several that are [DEL]dead[/DEL] er, _right_ on at 500 yards - meaning I can put 5 bullets within a 3 inch circle at that range … If I’ve been shooting all summer instead of what I have been doing. All of them cost under $1000 and usually go on sale about this time of year. A good scope is at least as important and at least as expensive, but still the kind of thing you could pick up easily. During the Vietnam war American snipers used common hunting rifles (Win mdl 70 and Rem 700) in common hunting calibers, according to Hathcock’s book. Sure Marine armorers accurized them, but for one shot that’s not so necessary. But not on meth. Shit, I can hardly hit if I have 2 Diet Pepsi’s with breakfast. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314/20 "2008-08-26T18:51:26Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] Hmm. I just did a stroll around the area via [del]Google maps[/del] astral projection, and it looks like there’s just a whole lotta parking lots and single-story buildings around the stadium. Not that a motivated nut couldn’t find a place to shoot from, but still. Maybe my shudder was premature. [/QUOTE] I don’t think there’s a spot in the city of Denver from where you can see the surface of the stadium. The open end of the stadium is to the south and its all flat and residential in that direction. There are hills and a tall hotel to the north, but they don’t reach above the top of the stadium. I don’t think Obama’s going to spend a lot of time in the streets, so I think he’s pretty safe here. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morons-foiled-in-plot-to-assassinate-obama/461314.md?page=2)