# Mortality rates on TV shows (possible spoilers ahead) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 29, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219 "2005-11-29T16:43:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/1 "2005-11-29T16:43:02Z")
A few days ago I was watching an _E.R._ from, oh, six years ago, and it struck me that a significant number of the characters in this episode had died in the course of the series: specifically Mark Greene, Robert Romano, and Lucy Knight. That, in turn, made me wonder what TV shows have the highest mortality rates–which is, naturally, the question I’d like to put to the group. Here’s a couple of rules. First, to keep shows like _E.R_. and \*Buffy \* (in which a minor character dies pretty much every week) from skewing the tally, let’s just consider deaths of major characters–by which I mean **featured regulars** (identified in the opening credits) and **significant recurring characters** --appearing in at least ten episodes and in more than one season. Thus, for, say, _Angel_, Cordelia, Lindsey, and Lorne would count as major, but Faith and Hamilton would not. Second, only permanent deaths count. A character who dies in a fantasy show only to be later resurrected does not count in the mort rate; so Gabrielle’s multiple deaths on \*Xena \* do not count. Third, only deaths during the course of the series counts; for example (Buffy/Angel/Firefly spoilers ahead) Cordelia does not add to the _Buffy_ mortality rate, because though both died on Angel, neither was dead at the time of the \*Buffy \* series finale. Likewise, Book & Wash’s death in Serenity do not add to Firefly’s total, as they were alive when the series went off the air. Lastly, we’re looking for deaths as a fraction of the total cast. I’ll start with my candidate: _Angel_. By my count, there were fifteen major characters over the course of the series, and by the last moment of the last scene of hte finale, all but five were dead. That’s a 2/3 mortality rate. Can anybody do better? ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/2 "2005-11-29T16:52:33Z")
_24_ wins. Hands down. Seriously, I’m not kidding. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/3 "2005-11-29T16:58:09Z")
fabulous\_creature: I’m curious about your counting with Angel… before I start nitpicking, can you post your list of fifteen names?? I don’t think that needs to be spoiler-boxed even, though you can if you wish. And, your second spoiler-box: is confusing me because you use ‘both’ and ‘neither’ in reference to a single name. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/4 "2005-11-29T16:58:19Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > _24_ wins. Hands down. Seriously, I’m not kidding. I’ve only seen one season, the latest, and only half of that–but did any major characters die? I’m sure dozens of redshirts and bad guys bit it; I knew twenty minutes into the first episode I watched that you do NOT want to be around Jack Bauer when he’s on a mission. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/5 "2005-11-29T17:03:26Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > I’ve only seen one season, the latest, and only half of that–but did any major characters die? I’m sure dozens of redshirts and bad guys bit it; I knew twenty minutes into the first episode I watched that you do NOT want to be around Jack Bauer when he’s on a mission. Sorry, you’ve got to watch seasons 1-3 as well. 😉 Plenty of major characters before this have been offed: Teri, Nina, Chappelle, Mason, Sherry, and a whole lotta terrorists for starters… ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/6 "2005-11-29T17:04:09Z")
HBO’s **OZ**. While there’s no prison in America that bloody, and I think it’s safe to say Em City was a colossal failure, but it was cool knowing that any character, regardless of if they’d been there that ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/7 "2005-11-29T17:04:40Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > fabulous\_creature: I’m curious about your counting with Angel… before I start nitpicking, can you post your list of fifteen names?? I don’t think that needs to be spoiler-boxed even, though you can if you wish. > > And, your second spoiler-box: > > is confusing me because you use ‘both’ and ‘neither’ in reference to a single name. That’s probably poor editing on my part. As for my fifteen major characters on Angel, now that I think on it, I miscounted. Angel, Cordelia, Doyle, Lilah, Lindsey, Wesley, Gunn, Holland, Darla, Fred, Gavin, Connor, Lilah & Gavin’s boss, Spike, Harmony, and Illyria. I didn’t count Lee Mercer because he only appeared in one season and was never featured in the credits; likewise Eve and Hamilton. Of those fifteen, only Angel, Gunn, Connor, Spike, Illyria, and Lorne were alive as of the last moment of the finale. That’s 6 of 16, or 3/8. Did I miss anybody? ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/8 "2005-11-29T17:05:00Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > I’ve only seen one season, the latest, and only half of that–but did any major characters die? I’m sure dozens of redshirts and bad guys bit it; I knew twenty minutes into the first episode I watched that you do NOT want to be around Jack Bauer when he’s on a mission. Well, 24 runs a little counter to some of your assumptions, in that there are a lot of characters who are undeniably of critical importance in one season, and then don’t come back next year, often because they’re toast by then. Your rules prevent them from attaining ‘major character’ status. Or do they?? I just realized that the way you stated the rules is a little ambiguous. If you’re a featured regular, does that keep you from having to appear in ten episodes over the course of two seasons?? Are those requirements only for recurring guest stars? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/9 "2005-11-29T17:06:15Z")
I screwed up the spoiler box in that last point; I’ll ask a mod to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/10 "2005-11-29T17:08:37Z")
Regarding the Angel body count: Harmony’s status is in doubt, but I’d give her the benefit and consider her ‘alive’ (Well, undead, which has to be the rule for vampire characters.) She had some time to get out of the W&H office before it started to fall apart. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/11 "2005-11-29T17:09:25Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Well, 24 runs a little counter to some of your assumptions, in that there are a lot of characters who are undeniably of critical importance in one season, and then don’t come back next year, often because they’re toast by then. Your rules prevent them from attaining ‘major character’ status. > > Or do they?? I just realized that the way you stated the rules is a little ambiguous. If you’re a featured regular, does that keep you from having to appear in ten episodes over the course of two seasons?? Are those requirements only for recurring guest stars? A major character is either (a) a featured regular, no matter how many episodes or seasons they appear in, or (b) a recurring guest who NOT ONLY appears in ten episodes BUT ALSO in two distinct seasons. Thus if the actress playing Teri Bauer was named in the opening credits, Teri counts as a major character even though she doesn’t make it through the first season. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/12 "2005-11-29T17:11:20Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Regarding the Angel body count: > > Harmony’s status is in doubt, but I’d give her the benefit and consider her ‘alive’ (Well, undead, which has to be the rule for vampire characters.) She had some time to get out of the W&H office before it started to fall apart. :smack: I forgot Harmony, and I was counting vampires as alive, so you’re right. So Angel’s mort count is 7/16, unless anyone else has a nitpick. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/13 "2005-11-29T17:16:22Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > I’ve only seen one season, the latest, and only half of that–but did any major characters die? The thing with 24 is that so often the bad guys are major characters. Let’s test my memory. I never remember character names. Season Four: TerrorDad, TerrorMom, the Mummy (Marwan!), English dude (estranged hubby), Mandy, Lee Castle (if he counts, looks like 10 episodes), Behrooz is probably dead Season Three: Ryan Chappelle, Claudia?, Nina, Sherry Palmer, Gael, Hector, Ramon I didn’t watch all of season 3, after the first person on the above list was killed, I bailed. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/14 "2005-11-29T17:20:10Z")
Slight hijack about Buffy vampires, which consists of a mild spoiler for Buffy season 2 episode ‘Surprise’: Early in the episode, at a table in the student lounge, everyone is discussing Drusilla. Is Drusilla alive? Will she kill Angel?? Could she have survived the collapsing church in ‘What’s my line’??? I expected someone, probably Xander to say ‘Of course she’s not alive - she hasn’t been alive for hundreds of years. The question is if she’s still undead or if she’s dust.’ Or something along those lines. But no-one did. That gave me a ☹ face [sub]Let’s see if that spoiler-proof sad face works.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/15 "2005-11-29T17:26:13Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Sorry, you’ve got to watch seasons 1-3 as well. 😉 Plenty of major characters before this have been offed: Chappelle get offed? Out f–king standing! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/16 "2005-11-29T17:38:16Z")
Sorry- the rest of this got gobbled. HBO’s OZ. While there’s no prison in America that bloody, and I think it’s safe to say Em City was a colossal failure, but it was cool knowing that any character, regardless of if they’d been there for that episode only or since the show’s beginning, can get killed at any time adds to the drama. There’s actually an RIP section on the show’s [web site](http://www.hbo.com/oz/). At one point the narrator of every episode since the first is killed, though he continues to narrate as a ghost (with special guest ghost narrators from previous seasons). ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/17 "2005-11-29T17:55:53Z")
My theory about **ER** is that the major staff mortality was karmic payback for all of the patients who had CPR performed on them for over 45 minutes and still managed to come back from the brink of death with all their faculties intact. Seriously, if the average \*\*ER \*\* patient having CPR was a real patient in a real ER very few of them would be still be alive. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/18 "2005-11-29T19:02:48Z")
Well, in the finale of Blake’s 7, all the “good guys” are dead, except Avon, and he was surrounded by 42 heavily armed guards. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Sweetums](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Sweetums](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweetums)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/19 "2005-11-29T19:36:12Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > My theory about **ER** is that the major staff mortality was karmic payback for all of the patients who had CPR performed on them for over 45 minutes and still managed to come back from the brink of death with all their faculties intact. > > Seriously, if the average \*\*ER \*\* patient having CPR was a real patient in a real ER very few of them would be still be alive. ``` Yeah, but consider how may patients bite it on that show due to doctor incompetence. Anything OTHER than CPR in that hospital is probably going to kill the patient. Perhaps the doctors on that show spent most of medical school learning "super CPR" and nothing else. ``` ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219/20 "2005-11-29T19:46:33Z")
> [@Sweetums](#): > > Yeah, but consider how may patients bite it on that show due to doctor incompetence. Anything OTHER than CPR in that hospital is probably going to kill the patient. > > ``` > Perhaps the doctors on that show spent most of medical school learning "super CPR" and nothing else. > > ``` Well, seeing as that hospital has been the site of two helicopter crashes, a lab explosion, a tank stand-off, a psycho-stabbing, and has had guns drawn in the ER several times, I’m suprised anyone lets the damn thing stay in business! Holy christ, I’d rather bleed to death in the street than go to county general. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortality-rates-on-tv-shows-possible-spoilers-ahead/333219.md?page=2)