# Mortar vs. Artillery **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 9, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874 "2014-10-09T16:08:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/21 "2014-10-11T20:46:25Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Sounds like you’re describing truck-launched Katyusha rockets, not mortars per se. Or perhaps the German [Nebelwerfer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebelwerfer), of which there were several versions, including multi-tube. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/22 "2014-10-11T21:05:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Mortars usually have a higher rate of fire, so you can identify them by the shorter amount of time between barrages. Not necessarily. Modern artillery can arrange things such that multiple shots from the same gun [arrive at the same time](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery#MRSI). The (cancelled) Crusader howitzer was supposed to do this with [up to 8 rounds at a time](http://www.army-technology.com/projects/crusader/). ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/23 "2014-10-11T21:15:18Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Well, then there’s naval gunfire, where the old 23" guns had a range of over 20 miles 23-inch shipborne guns? I don’t recall any that large. Some US Civil War monitors had 20-inch Dahlgrens, but those were smoothbores. Modner naval rifles–the kind with the sort of over-the-horizon range you describe–peaked at 16 inches in American use and 18 inches in British and Japanese usage. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/24 "2014-10-11T21:45:38Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Not necessarily. Modern artillery can arrange things such that multiple shots from the same gun [arrive at the same time](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery#MRSI). The (cancelled) Crusader howitzer was supposed to do this with [up to 8 rounds at a time](http://www.army-technology.com/projects/crusader/). While various TOT techniques can bring up the number of rounds tube-artillery deliver on a target, if you look at initial & sustained rates of fire, mortars still come out ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/25 "2014-10-11T21:46:59Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > 23-inch shipborne guns? I don’t recall any that large. Some US Civil War monitors had 20-inch Dahlgrens, but those were smoothbores. Modner naval rifles–the kind with the sort of over-the-horizon range you describe–peaked at 16 inches in American use and 18 inches in British and Japanese usage. And what a racket they made. I remember the USS New Jersey shelling from off the coast of Vietnam. Sounded like a freight train going over. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/26 "2014-10-11T22:11:17Z")
For the side conversation about lethal radius: Pretty sure the lethal radius for 12mm mortar HE is 55m as opposed to 50m for 155mm artillery HE. Exact numbers aside the 120mm HE does have a bigger lethal radius. As to the original question: Depending on how terrain, weather, background noise etc affected the transmission of the sound, mortars firing tend to sound different to me than tube arty. I wouldn’t think anyone could tell if there were lots of things going boom at the same time. Slower projectile speed and high angle makes mortar rounds possible to visually spot against the sky at times. Tube arty not so much. There are techniques to investigate craters and shrapnel/residue after things calm down. I’m doubting someone did that and got it to the media in this case. Of course there’s the other rule since we’re talking about a media report. Assume they get most technical and tactical details wrong about military stuff. The media tends to be wildly ignorant in this area. Something fell from the sky and went boom. They called it mortars. If only the media would hire one less senior field grade or general officer expert and hire just one senior combat arms NCO to scrub their stuff instead… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/27 "2014-10-12T01:20:58Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > 23-inch shipborne guns? I don’t recall any that large. Some US Civil War monitors had 20-inch Dahlgrens, but those were smoothbores. The Navy only contracted for 4 20-inch Dahlgrens, for the USS Puritan, but then the Civil War ended, the project got scrapped and mothballed, and the ship was never finished. So, the guns were never installed, and later, one was sold to Peru, which put it in a fort and used it for shore defense. The largest guns ever actually put on a monitor were 15 inchers. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/28 "2014-10-12T01:49:43Z")
A mortar barrage means your enemy is withing shooting, or at least machine gun, distance (do mortars go past 2 miles?) Mortar rounds are sub-sonic, AFAIK. So yes, artillery shells would have a signature on approach. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/29 "2014-10-12T05:01:25Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > 23-inch shipborne guns? I don’t recall any that large. Some US Civil War monitors had 20-inch Dahlgrens, but those were smoothbores. Modner naval rifles–the kind with the sort of over-the-horizon range you describe–peaked at 16 inches in American use and 18 inches in British and Japanese usage. I stand corrected, it’s 16" for the Iowa class, or 18" for the Yamato. Thanks for setting things straight. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/30 "2014-10-12T05:40:33Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > A mortar barrage means your enemy is withing shooting, or at least machine gun, distance (do mortars go past 2 miles?) . 2 miles is 3219m rounded. For the mortars in US service: M120 (120mm) max range 7200m M252 (81mm) max range 5935m M224 (60mm) max range 3490m All past 2 miles and well past any effective machinegun fire unless they are shooting from much closer than max range. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/31 "2014-10-12T13:49:53Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > … Mortar rounds are sub-sonic, AFAIK. So yes, artillery shells would have a signature on approach. These two sentences seem to contradict each other. Or at least the second does not at all follow from the first. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/32 "2014-10-12T14:49:44Z")
Fort Sill, OK has a nice artillery museum and it’s open to the public. Civilians just need to check in at the main gate. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874/33 "2014-10-12T14:50:46Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > These two sentences seem to contradict each other. Or at least the second does not at all follow from the first. Supersonic projectiles make noise when they break the sound barrier. Though the recipient of said projectiles might not hear that sound in time on account of having scattered over a wide area before the sound waves could catch up, any third-party observers would. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortar-vs-artillery/700874.md?page=1)