# Mortgage/Debt after breakup **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 17, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112 "2010-09-17T18:39:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/41 "2010-09-22T21:38:35Z")
> [@Fat\_Chance](#): > > Why should I not get an credit for the money I’ve already put down (ignoring capital improvements, anyway). The reason the variance is 40K instead of 60K is because of the 20K that I already spent. If you split the variance I end up paying 40K to live in the house, while she paid 20K. How is that fair? > > My math was indeed off a bit up there, but I don’t see getting no credit for the down payment. The reason is that the down payment money NO LONGER EXISTS. It went away when the value of your house dropped. That’s the reason you don’t get credit for it - there’s nothing to credit. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/42 "2010-09-23T00:37:20Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > In my inexpert opinion, I also think the down payment is counted as joint funds, not your particular money, the same way your salaries and debts incurred while a couple are considered to be joint finances. Are finances considered joint if you’re not married? Legally, aren’t they basically just roommates with equal liability for a major debt. Do you live in a Common Law state, **Fat Chance**? Also… Girlfriend of ten years??? I have zero problem with people “shacking up” as the saying goes, and have done so myself on more than one occasion, but buying a house without being married is really pretty foolish. I know that this is water under the proverbial bridge and doesn’t help the OP, but if anyone reads this and is considering making such a major purchase with someone they’re not legally bound to, please please please let this be a cautionary tale for you. I’m not saying that being married would prevent her from leaving just the same, but it would definitely make it harder. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/43 "2010-09-23T00:44:43Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > A short sale will wreck your credit. In some places, it’s every bit as bad as a foreclosure in that regard. And in some places, it’s not (from what I’ve read). It would be worth looking into at least, is all I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/44 "2010-09-23T02:59:51Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > In my inexpert opinion, I also think the down payment is counted as joint funds, not your particular money, the same way your salaries and debts incurred while a couple are considered to be joint finances. We’re not married. Not sure if that matters, but lets say we were just 2 guy business partners. Then what? ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/45 "2010-09-23T03:08:09Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > > In my inexpert opinion, I also think the down payment is counted as joint funds, not your particular money, the same way your salaries and debts incurred while a couple are considered to be joint finances. > > Are finances considered joint if you’re not married? Legally, aren’t they basically just roommates with equal liability for a major debt. Do you live in a Common Law state, **Fat Chance**? > > Also… Girlfriend of ten years??? I have zero problem with people “shacking up” as the saying goes, and have done so myself on more than one occasion, but buying a house without being married is really pretty foolish. I know that this is water under the proverbial bridge and doesn’t help the OP, but if anyone reads this and is considering making such a major purchase with someone they’re not legally bound to, please please please let this be a cautionary tale for you. I’m not saying that being married would prevent her from leaving just the same, but it would definitely make it harder. Not a common law state. and, I’ll consider it. But our lack of getting married was a mutual one, not me holding out or something. There are a few of us out there that don’t need to get married to prove anything and that is what we thought. Our home situation woudln’t really be any different if we were married so it wouldn’t have mattered. Getting married 3 years ago wouldn’t have avoided this situation. I don’t want to get into a debat in this thread on marriage, and I think my situation wouldn’t really matter all that much if we were, other than having a judge decide things instead of us, as 2 adults. And the last point I’ll make, is you are right, it may have made it harder to leave. I see that as a negative, not a positive. I wouldn’t want her to stay with me becuase we are married, and I told her I don’t want her to stay with me because we own a home. That woudn’t equal happiness for either of us. So, we were legally bound together. We own the home together, legally. We both knew this going in. Only one of us is trying to forget it now that her feelings have changed. But, for sure, I won’t be buying a home with another person any time soon, thats for damn sure. ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/46 "2010-09-23T03:10:50Z")
> [@Fat\_Chance](#): > > > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > > In my inexpert opinion, I also think the down payment is counted as joint funds, not your particular money, the same way your salaries and debts incurred while a couple are considered to be joint finances. > > We’re not married. Not sure if that matters, but lets say we were just 2 guy business partners. Then what? Thought about that as well, and have been looking into how much it would affect my credit and ability to buy a home in the near future. That is another consideration. I’ve been crunching the numbers and trying to figure out what the best outcome would be. Unfortunately, the best financial outcome may not be the best way someone wants to live. If I could short sale and get a room for a couple hundred, I’d be in much better financial situation. I just don’t think I want to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/47 "2010-09-23T03:12:33Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > > In my inexpert opinion, I also think the down payment is counted as joint funds, not your particular money, the same way your salaries and debts incurred while a couple are considered to be joint finances. > > Are finances considered joint if you’re not married? Legally, aren’t they basically just roommates with equal liability for a major debt. Do you live in a Common Law state, **Fat Chance**? > > Also… Girlfriend of ten years??? I have zero problem with people “shacking up” as the saying goes, and have done so myself on more than one occasion, but buying a house without being married is really pretty foolish. I know that this is water under the proverbial bridge and doesn’t help the OP, but if anyone reads this and is considering making such a major purchase with someone they’re not legally bound to, please please please let this be a cautionary tale for you. I’m not saying that being married would prevent her from leaving just the same, but it would definitely make it harder. Just one more time, how would my situation be different if we were married first? If anthything, it may be worse, as in that situation all the money spent would be joint. Right now, I have a chance that it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/48 "2010-09-23T03:22:28Z")
> [@Fat\_Chance](#): > > > [@Fat\_Chance](#): > > > > We’re not married. Not sure if that matters, but lets say we were just 2 guy business partners. Then what? > > Thought about that as well, and have been looking into how much it would affect my credit and ability to buy a home in the near future. That is another consideration. > > I’ve been crunching the numbers and trying to figure out what the best outcome would be. Unfortunately, the best financial outcome may not be the best way someone wants to live. If I could short sale and get a room for a couple hundred, I’d be in much better financial situation. I just don’t think I want to do that. quoted the wrong post - this was supposed to be in response to credit be affected by a short sale : ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/49 "2010-09-23T03:27:42Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > > [@Fat\_Chance](#): > > > > You are right there is nothing to lose in checking it out. But I do lose the house if I sell it. I’m not so sure I want to do that just yet. > > So wait, you 1) don’t want a rooommate 2) don’t want to sell 3) admitted you’ll be strapped for cash if you stay put and 4) if you do sell, you want her to give you back the down payment essentially. > > Would you like the moon as well? Just out of curiosity, are you still of these 4 beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/50 "2010-09-23T03:28:00Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > > [@Fat\_Chance](#): > > > > Why should I not get an credit for the money I’ve already put down (ignoring capital improvements, anyway). The reason the variance is 40K instead of 60K is because of the 20K that I already spent. If you split the variance I end up paying 40K to live in the house, while she paid 20K. How is that fair? > > > > My math was indeed off a bit up there, but I don’t see getting no credit for the down payment. > > The reason is that the down payment money NO LONGER EXISTS. It went away when the value of your house dropped. That’s the reason you don’t get credit for it - there’s nothing to credit. The down payment lowered the gap from mortgage balance to value. Without my down payment, the gap would be much larger, as the mortgage balance would be higher = greater share of the gap for each of us. So she would be benefitting from my down payment, and I wouldn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/51 "2010-09-23T03:36:43Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > > [@lindsaybluth](#): > > > > So wait, you 1) don’t want a rooommate 2) don’t want to sell 3) admitted you’ll be strapped for cash if you stay put and 4) if you do sell, you want her to give you back the down payment essentially. > > > > Would you like the moon as well? > > Just out of curiosity, are you still of these 4 beliefs? 1. correct, don’t want a roommate - combination of who I am, who I need to be, where I live, and what impact it would have financially. 2. not really sure. Want to make a good financial decision, but also don’t want to be forced to move right now. This becomes a numbers vs. where I want to live and what kind of investment loss I’ll take, issue 3. Strapped in the sense that it would be much more difficult, but I could pay it if I had to. She’s relied on me financially to some degree over the years, and it didn’t really bother me all that much, but I don’t think my responsibility should continue after she says she wants to leave me and have her own life. 4. Not really. I just want her to realize the implications of what she seems to really want = walk away with no obligation, or very small obligation. I don’t expect her to give my down payment back, but it should be part of the discussion. In the end I am willing, and am pretty sure, I’ll accept a situation that is much much less harmfull to her financially than it will be to me. But to just blow off all the money, effort, time, and work I’ve put into our mutual home is not something I’ll let go easily. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/52 "2010-09-23T06:24:51Z")
Do you live in a non-recourse mortgage state? In some states, you would not be on the hook for the amount you are underwater on the house after a sale or foreclosure. Walking away might be a better option than a short sale. Either way, you would need to consult a lawyer. Secondly, even if she is on the hook for the house, the reality seems to be that she has far less to lose than you do. As a result, you’d be better off a appealing to her sense of fairness, morality, and lingering feelings she has for you, rather than trying to sell her on some cold legal analysis. If she knows you won’t allow the house to be foreclosed on, I’m not sure what you could do aside form sue her. Even so, your chances of success are probably not that high. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/53 "2010-09-23T16:07:49Z")
> [@Fat\_Chance](#): > > > [@lindsaybluth](#): > > > > Just out of curiosity, are you still of these 4 beliefs? > > 1. correct, don’t want a roommate - combination of who I am, who I need to be, where I live, and what impact it would have financially. > 2. not really sure. Want to make a good financial decision, but also don’t want to be forced to move right now. This becomes a numbers vs. where I want to live and what kind of investment loss I’ll take, issue > 3. Strapped in the sense that it would be much more difficult, but I could pay it if I had to. She’s relied on me financially to some degree over the years, and it didn’t really bother me all that much, but I don’t think my responsibility should continue after she says she wants to leave me and have her own life. > 4. Not really. I just want her to realize the implications of what she seems to really want = walk away with no obligation, or very small obligation. I don’t expect her to give my down payment back, but it should be part of the discussion. In the end I am willing, and am pretty sure, I’ll accept a situation that is much much less harmfull to her financially than it will be to me. But to just blow off all the money, effort, time, and work I’ve put into our mutual home is not something I’ll let go easily. And as everyone here has quite patiently explained to you, (IANAL) #4 is not legally your right. If you push her to give you cash for the house, fine. But legally it’s not your right. That’s why others were pushing #1 (roommate) or #2 (selling via a short sale), but you don’t seem receptive to either. So you want what is not lawfully yours, nor will you accept any alternative. It’s very clear you never considered the two of you a “team” in any sense, that you still had clearly defined boundaries of what was yours and hers. Everyone who is calling your BS on living together for 10 years but not getting married is spot on. You have several good options in this thread but are dead set on not choosing any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/54 "2010-09-23T17:28:23Z")
If I were the OP, I wouldn’t put a lot of stock into what a bunch of non-lawyers were telling me about my “rights”. Nobody here has any clue what his rights are, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out that he is entitled to more money, since he invested more up front. And a short sale will hurt your credit, even if it isn’t quite as bad as a foreclosure. “Better than a foreclosure” is a pretty meaningless descriptor. ---
**Author:** ![kathmandu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kathmandu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kathmandu)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/55 "2010-09-23T20:05:57Z")
> [@Fat\_Chance](#): > > We’re not married. Not sure if that matters, but lets say we were just 2 guy business partners. Then what? You weren’t just 2 guy business partners. You were a man and a woman living together as common law spouses. Depending on your jurisdiction, this may give rise to all sorts of rights and responsibilities not restricted to who gets what money (or who assumes the debt) from the house. Either you or she may be entitled to spousal support, there may be pension benefits that should be split, or there may be any number of legal complications that can arise when parties who cohabited for ten years decide to go their separate ways. **Labrador Deceiver** is absolutely right - no one here has any idea what your true legal situation is. You’ve only discussed one part of the picture - the house. It may be that this is the only thing that needs to be dealt with, but I’m guessing it’s probably not. You really need to see a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/56 "2010-09-23T20:11:03Z")
FYI, most states do not recognize common law marriage. (But IA still NAL.) However, the OPer entered into a legal contract, which is why he should (once again) consult an attorney. [http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage-fact-sheet.html](http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage-fact-sheet.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/57 "2010-09-23T20:19:15Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > > [@Fat\_Chance](#): > > > > 1. correct, don’t want a roommate - combination of who I am, who I need to be, where I live, and what impact it would have financially. > > 2. not really sure. Want to make a good financial decision, but also don’t want to be forced to move right now. This becomes a numbers vs. where I want to live and what kind of investment loss I’ll take, issue > > 3. Strapped in the sense that it would be much more difficult, but I could pay it if I had to. She’s relied on me financially to some degree over the years, and it didn’t really bother me all that much, but I don’t think my responsibility should continue after she says she wants to leave me and have her own life. > > 4. Not really. I just want her to realize the implications of what she seems to really want = walk away with no obligation, or very small obligation. I don’t expect her to give my down payment back, but it should be part of the discussion. In the end I am willing, and am pretty sure, I’ll accept a situation that is much much less harmfull to her financially than it will be to me. But to just blow off all the money, effort, time, and work I’ve put into our mutual home is not something I’ll let go easily. > > And as everyone here has quite patiently explained to you, (IANAL) #4 is not legally your right. If you push her to give you cash for the house, fine. But legally it’s not your right. That’s why others were pushing #1 (roommate) or #2 (selling via a short sale), but you don’t seem receptive to either. So you want what is not lawfully yours, nor will you accept any alternative. It’s very clear you never considered the two of you a “team” in any sense, that you still had clearly defined boundaries of what was yours and hers. Everyone who is calling your BS on living together for 10 years but not getting married is spot on. > > You have several good options in this thread but are dead set on not choosing any of them. First - I never said I assumed I had a legal right. I said I MIGHT. I said I was working the fairness angle, and would look into the legal right if needed. Next - I have listened to everyone’s input. I am thinking about all my options, including a short sale. Nothing is off the table, so my apologies if I don’t seem “receptive” because I didn’t jump up and down saying yes. Finally - I appreciate you judging me. However you are so very wrong. We were most surely a team, everything I did, I did for both of us together, to better both of our lives together, to make her happy and myself happy. But then she left the team. A team discusses the implications of buying a home, talks about how both will be needed to be financially and emotionally stable and happy in that new home, and talks about how both members need to be 100% sure. We did all that. And she walked. ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/58 "2010-09-23T20:24:36Z")
> [@kathmandu](#): > > > [@Fat\_Chance](#): > > > > We’re not married. Not sure if that matters, but lets say we were just 2 guy business partners. Then what? > > You weren’t just 2 guy business partners. You were a man and a woman living together as common law spouses. Depending on your jurisdiction, this may give rise to all sorts of rights and responsibilities not restricted to who gets what money (or who assumes the debt) from the house. Either you or she may be entitled to spousal support, there may be pension benefits that should be split, or there may be any number of legal complications that can arise when parties who cohabited for ten years decide to go their separate ways. > > **Labrador Deceiver** is absolutely right - no one here has any idea what your true legal situation is. You’ve only discussed one part of the picture - the house. It may be that this is the only thing that needs to be dealt with, but I’m guessing it’s probably not. You really need to see a lawyer. The second she walked out on me, we became merely business partners owning a property. And, there is no common law, aquired rights/responsibilities, etc in NY state so no other issues except the house. ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/59 "2010-09-23T20:27:38Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > If I were the OP, I wouldn’t put a lot of stock into what a bunch of non-lawyers were telling me about my “rights”. Nobody here has any clue what his rights are, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out that he is entitled to more money, since he invested more up front. > And a short sale will hurt your credit, even if it isn’t quite as bad as a foreclosure. “Better than a foreclosure” is a pretty meaningless descriptor. Yes, the short sale impact on my credit is another issue I’ve considered. And she needs to think about also. She needs to buy a new car soon - and probably won’t want to see a big hit on her credit, for example. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112/60 "2010-09-23T20:55:08Z")
> [@Fat\_Chance](#): > > Just one more time, how would my situation be different if we were married first? If anthything, it may be worse, as in that situation all the money spent would be joint. Right now, I have a chance that it isn’t. Not sure it would have helped your situation, but it’s definitely the smart thing to do before buying a home. Whether or not you believe in marriage as a sacred bond, it’s a pretty good legal one that can protect you in many cases. Here’s an example that could still affect you actually… What if your ex unexpectedly passes away before this is all settled? If you were married, her 50% share of the house would transfer to you automatically. However, unless she has a will in place that grants you that interest, her share would go to her parents or whomever the state determines is the beneficiery of her estate. If you had equity in the property (which I realize you don’t), the bank can force the sale of the home to settle her portion of the debt. Actually, I think they will do that even if you’re under water on the mortgage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mortgage-debt-after-breakup/554112.md?page=4)