# Mosier put up or shut up **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222 "2011-11-07T23:31:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/21 "2011-11-08T02:20:17Z")
It’s still twitching. Creepy. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/22 "2011-11-08T02:22:12Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > [Are environmentalists cowards on immigration? - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=612003) - a hyperconservative anti-immigration group of nobodies used by you as a primary source claims environmentalists are dishonest for allowing immigration. First reply points out there is no such link, and the fifth post shows just how incredibly biased and unreliable the source is. Heh, you managed to misrepresent the first post. It’s about why environmentalists suddenly dropped this issue and suggests one reason is the fear of being labelled racist. The debate went on for 12 pages and pleasingly attracted some rational [comments](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13909870&postcount=62) rather than simple knee jerk outrage. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/23 "2011-11-08T02:29:54Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > It’s still twitching. Creepy. Indeed, and he thinks getting support from magellian is the beesknees, of course failing to notice how the latest census reports show that immigrants are also having less children (like natives do) shows that for Chen, ignoring evidence is a feature, not a bug. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/24 "2011-11-08T02:31:54Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > [Immigrants who enter the country illegally and the costs they impose - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=606579) - immigrants destroy the economy, except when your own source points out they are a net economic benefit, as quoted in the 5th reply. > . Fail. You’ve misrepresented the argument in your first sentence. The claim made in that thread is about illegal immigration. Not “immigrants destroy the economy”. In fact, the National Research Council report “The New Americans”, which I cite in that thread, specifically distinguishes between the impact of immigrantion by education level. If you want to refute something, you need to first actually address what is being argued. That’s fair isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/25 "2011-11-08T04:05:49Z")
Oh, this will not end well. :eek: I scent blood in the waters here… -XT ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/26 "2011-11-08T04:09:15Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Oh, this will not end well. :eek: I scent blood in the waters here… > > -XT I thought it ended in the first five posts. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/27 "2011-11-08T04:10:43Z")
You know what the ironic thing is? Whenever **Chen019** posts, the distraction enables someone to sneak across the border and steal a job. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/28 "2011-11-08T04:16:10Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] I thought it ended in the first five posts. [/QUOTE] 😛 Not a chance…it will go on for torturous page after torturous page, as the OP gets slammed and the sharks start to jump the thread. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/29 "2011-11-08T04:16:24Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > I thought it ended in the first five posts. Heh, someone posting a reply apparently counts as a refutation to some. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/30 "2011-11-08T04:18:55Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Wow. **Mosier** has proven that you are an idiot in one fell swoop. > > Congratulations! To be fair, it took till post 13, which is significantly beyond the “within 5 posts” stipulated in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/31 "2011-11-08T04:21:34Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > 😛 Not a chance…it will go on for torturous page after torturous page, as the OP gets slammed and the sharks start to jump the thread. > > -XT I do not think that he is smart enough to realize he is being slammed.. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/32 "2011-11-08T04:21:35Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You know what the ironic thing is? > > Whenever **Chen019** posts, the distraction enables someone to sneak across the border and steal a job. Heh, I could care less about people taking jobs. The problem is that low skilled migrants from Mexico are a net drain on the economy. The children of these migrants also qualify for affirmative action and there is the problem of the achievement gap. Basically, reducing the average skill level of the population is not smart from a macroeconomic perspective. > [@](#): > > A newly released report on student achievement finds that members of the nation’s second largest ethnic group are still woefully underperforming their white counterparts. The report, issued June 23 by the U.S. Department of Education’s National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) shows that while scores have gone up for both groups, Hispanic students lag by the same amount today as they did in 1990, which means that the achievement gap between Hispanic and white students has been largely unchanged for the past two decades. [http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2079429,00.html#ixzz1d5IOIE1U](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2079429,00.html#ixzz1d5IOIE1U) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/33 "2011-11-08T04:24:33Z")
[QUOTE=Gorsnak] To be fair, it took till post 13, which is significantly beyond the “within 5 posts” stipulated in the OP. [/QUOTE] Did you adjust your calculation using the SDMB Snarky Reply Variable and Coefficient for Sarcasm?? I actually think that 13 posts is well under the actual limit set by the OP, once the proper calculations are done. -XT ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/34 "2011-11-08T04:28:00Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] I do not think that he is smart enough to realize he is being slammed.. [/QUOTE] Well…no. The best evidence for that is the fact that s/he started this thread in the first place. Really, REALLY bad move. It’s practically a text book example of a boomeranging pit thread. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/35 "2011-11-08T04:31:17Z")
Just adding the [link]([http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/hsw/psychologie/professuren/entwpsy/team/](http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/hsw/psychologie/professuren/entwpsy/team/) rindermann/publikationen/08IntEco.pdf) in relation to my comment regarding education level and national economic performance. > [@](#): > > The results reported here show that during the last third of the 20th century, education and cognitive abilities were more important for economic wealth than economic wealth was for education and cognitive abilities. This result is stable across the different national samples of education and ability and remains after adding additional factors like economic freedom. Intelligence is even more important for wealth than economic freedom (see also Weede, 2006)! Whereas the importance of intelligence for many personal life outcomes has been recognized for some time (Gottfredson, 2003; Herrnstein & Murray, 1994), we should realize that intelligence is also an important determinant for the economic and social development of nations (for example the functioning of institutions in the systems of law, economics and politics). The present study shows that a high level of cognitive development can be an antecedent and likely cause for economic growth, but other macro-social outcomes (e.g., democracy, rule of law, national power or health) are likely to be influenced by education and intelligence as well (Rindermann, submitted for publication; Rindermann & Meisenberg, submitted for publication)… > > Conversely, a population with low education and intelligence seems to necessitate more state intervention, which tends to widen the influence of powerful special-interest groups. _Relevance of education and intelligence at the national level for the economic welfare of people_ H. Rindermann / Intelligence 36 (2008) 127–142 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/36 "2011-11-08T04:36:25Z")
tl:dr ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/37 "2011-11-08T04:37:41Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Did you adjust your calculation using the SDMB Snarky Reply Variable and Coefficient for Sarcasm?? I actually think that 13 posts is well under the actual limit set by the OP, once the proper calculations are done. I don’t think a coefficient is even necessary. No multiplication is needed; all that is required is a constant like in the gas law: PV=nRT +C. This thread has a constant of 8. I didn’t know what the fuck the OP was talking about till a link was posted in post 8 (the constant). Post 13 came exactly five posts later, so the equation holds. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/38 "2011-11-08T04:42:17Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > I don’t think a coefficient is even necessary. No multiplication is necessary, as it is purely additive. Like PV=nRT +C where C is a constant, this thread has a constant of 8. I didn’t know what the fuck the OP was talking about till a link was posted in post 8. Post 13 came exactly five posts later, so the equation holds. Post 13 also happens to misrepresent the arguments in the threads he’s linked to. It’s really poor. Again, if you’re going to say something has been refuted, you need to state accurately what the original argument was. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/39 "2011-11-08T04:50:55Z")
[Insert argument sketch reference here] ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222/40 "2011-11-08T04:54:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I do not think that he is smart enough to realize he is being slammed.. This is heady stuff coming from someone who is incapable of logical thought. Or at least, putting it into written form. I would say that you’re barely above **Der Trihs** in terms of posting quality. About the only person who posts reasonable and thought out responses is **Brain Glutton**. Unfortunately, you have to wade through a lot of dross to get to his comments. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosier-put-up-or-shut-up/602222.md?page=3)