I eeally don’t understand what you and some others are on about.
A variety of people in this thread have said Muslim, pronounced “muss-lim,” is preferable in English.
Nobody has said that Moslem, pronounced “mozz-lim,” is preferable. The only support for Moslem is people insisting that they are equally acceptable.
In light of that, what possible reason would there be to continue using Moslem? Why wouldn’t you just say, “okay, Muslim it is” and get on with your life?
There are a few theories. One is that they couldn’t stand up; they were so close to death they were always falling over, so they were always on their knees like a Muslim praying. The second is that there was at the time the stereotype of Muslims as weak or inferior. The third is that there was another stereotype that Muslims were fatalistic, so these were the prisoners who had, like Muslims, given up, and stopped trying to survive.
Yes it would be the case, for various prejudices.
I think the sooner that persons stop attacking others beliefs for no particular motivation, and dropping irrelevant comments in every conversation about a religion or a non-religion and show simple respect, whether it is for the belief or the non-belief, that life would be better.
As it escapes me to know what your athiesm belief has anything to do with the word moslem or the word muslim.
Moderating
While the fact that the word may be offensive in some contexts is cogent to this discussion, how people “should” behave with regard to this information is getting out of the sphere of General Questions. So are pokes at religion in general. If you wish to discuss whether or not it’s OK for people to use a word that they are aware might be offensive, please take it to IMHO or Great Debates. Otherwise let’s stick to the more factual aspects of the question.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
Bearing the Moderator’s comments in mind …
I have failed to communicate. No offense meant or taken.
To me the word “Moslem” is pronounced MOZZ-l<schwa>m. I accept that the word is now obsolete and to some people offensive; No disagreement there.
But the new and improved word Muslim is pronounced by me (and IMO most Americans) as MUZZ-l<schwa>m. Which, if anything, sounds even more like the offensive word in Arabic than does “Moslem” as pronounced by Americans. Which makes the change of spelling *apparently *make no sense; it *apparently *doesn’t improve the situation.
Therefore, I have repeatedly asked for somebody, anybody, to tell me how to properly pronounce “Muslim” in the desired non-offensive manner. You, in your most recent post I quoted here, were the first person to do so, suggesting “muss-lim” with a thick unvoiced S sound instead of a Z sound.
Thank you. Ignorance finally fought.
I’m not trying to be obstructionist or knee-jerk anti-PC. That’s about the antithesis of how I roll. But somehow nobody could see my question or provide an answer. Until now.
To clarify again - the word in Arabic that is being called offensvie, is muDHlim - in the classical, the modern formal and in all western spoken dialects this has a sound like a heavy TH or a D, not a Z.
The pronunciation is more persian associated. The proper arabic word has no z in it.
It did not occur to me that someone in english would say Z for S in Muslim. I have never heard this from an anglophone.
That’s actually a standard pronunciation as given by Merriam-Webster (although it also includes an “s” pronunciation) which also provides an audio sample. Likewise, Merriam-Webster says that “Moslem” is pronounced with a “z” sound, although it can be “s.” The only difference between the two words is in the initial vowel.
\ˈməz-ləm, ˈmu̇s-, ˈmu̇z-\
\ˈmäz-ləm also ˈmäs-
It would appear that the idea that “Moslem” is offensive because it contains a “z” sound while “Muslim” does not is not supported by Merriam-Webster, at least.
hmm perhaps I paid no attention. In any case it is clear that the Z is not the formal and proper pronunciation in Arabic of muDHlim so it is only something from some dialects and more from muslims whose languages have adopted the persian pronunciation.