# Moslems and Infidels, some clarification please. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 5, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moslems-and-infidels-some-clarification-please/347154 "2006-03-05T18:07:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moslems-and-infidels-some-clarification-please/347154/1 "2006-03-05T18:07:00Z")
I’m not sure I got all my ducks in a row here, so I am posting a pre-question before O post my main question, but my understanding is that all non-Moslems are Infidels. Moslems are suppose to deceive Infidels if it furthers their cause, which is the spread of Islam. If the above not true, please correct me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moslems-and-infidels-some-clarification-please/347154/2 "2006-03-05T18:39:28Z")
You are incorrect on both counts. The Arabic word translated as “infidel” (_kafir_) is defined in Islam as only those people who _after recieving a full and correct understanding of the religion_ choose to reject it anyway. Since most non-Muslims do not have a thorough understanding (or have an incomplete or improper understanding) they are not _kafir_. There is nothing in the Qur’an about Muslims “deceiving” infidels but I have seen the following Sutra characterized as proof that “Allah is a deciever” on anti-Muslim websites, They plotted and schemed, but so did GOD, and GOD is the best schemer. (_Sura_ 3:54) These kinds of websites claim that the word for “schemer” should be translated as “deceiver.” I find that weak. From what I can find, the word implies being “cunning, sly, tricksy” and that it does not exclude deception, but this is simply a statement that God is craftier than the craftiest of humans, not an exhortation to Muslims to deceive “infidels” (and certainly not all non-Muslims). And FYI, the preferred spelling is M **u** slim, with a ‘u.’ ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moslems-and-infidels-some-clarification-please/347154/3 "2006-03-05T18:59:37Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’m not sure I got all my ducks in a row here, so I am posting a pre-question before O post my main question, but my understanding is that all non-Moslems are Infidels. As Diogenes notes, **technically** a _kafir_ is one who deliberately rejects the faith, not the merely misguided. Over the centuries how that is defined is various. In common parlance any non-Muslim might be called a _kafir_ as a derogatory slang, whereas a religious scholar might say that no, people like Christians and Jews are merely misguided by their corrupted scrptures and it is up to God to decide. > [@](#): > > Moslems are suppose to deceive Infidels if it furthers their cause, which is the spread of Islam. Not really, no. Islam arose in a situation of direct and open conflict and later was winning - it didn’t need to deceive. What you may be thinking of are Shi’a doctrines of Taqiyya, or religious dissimulation, that arose to shelter them from Sunni persecution. Under potential threat Shi’a were sanctioned to eel around questions of faith in order to survive. Generally speaking Sunnis ( and not all Shi’a - the Zaydi sect specifically abjures it ) do not accept Taqiyya, though there have been some scholarly counter arguments, much like the Shi’a ones, that say it is permissable under direct threat. - Tamerlane