# Mosque to be built two blocks from Ground Zero **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432 "2010-05-14T14:36:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/221 "2010-08-07T18:55:28Z")
Some concept designs were posted upthread and they look nothing like a mosque. It includes a prayer space, but it sounds like it will be a moderately tall office building and that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/222 "2010-08-07T21:53:54Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > A more or less serious question: I believe the architect has only recently been chosen, so there is no firm design; but does the concept incorporate minaret(s) and muezzin(s) to call the faithful to prayer? And if not, can it properly be called a mosque? I’m pretty sure there isn’t a minaret, though I’m not positive. There are multiple mosques in my Brooklyn neighborhood, and none of them have minarets. They’re all storefront mosques, just like the storefront churches you see in many big cities. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/223 "2010-08-07T22:16:44Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > A more or less serious question: I believe the architect has only recently been chosen, so there is no firm design; but does the concept incorporate minaret(s) and muezzin(s) to call the faithful to prayer? And if not, can it properly be called a mosque? A mosque (or masjid) is any place where Muslims worship. They are no more required to have minarets or loud muezzins than Christian churches are required to have steeples and bells. Some sects refuse to build them at all, in fact. In places like the US, the call to prayer is typically played more quietly, or not at all. Sometimes the muezzin will just stand in front of the doors and say it. ---
**Author:** ![jaxbus4000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c89c15/32.png) [@jaxbus4000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaxbus4000)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/224 "2010-08-11T18:13:21Z")
Just another item that will further divide the country and shows how brainwashed people have become. To me, it’s a no brainer, and we should not allow them to build it there. But again, most have allowed “political correctness” to cloud their thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/225 "2010-08-11T18:19:25Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Are you offended by a church or even the Christian memorial near the site of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal building? If not, why not? I’d put forth the reason that you’re offended by a mosque near the site of the World Trade Center is prejudice against Muslims. By the way, weren’t some of the victims of that attack Muslims? The Murrah building wasn’t attacked by anyone invoking a religious purpose. That would be like saying any crime committed by a Christian/Muslim/Jew was religious in intent. But if you had asked an honest question about a Fred Phelps church located next to the murder of 1000’s of gays, then hell fucking yes I would object. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/226 "2010-08-11T18:21:48Z")
> [@jaxbus4000](#): > > Just another item that will further divide the country and shows how brainwashed people have become. To me, it’s a no brainer, and we should not allow them to build it there. But again, most have allowed “political correctness” to cloud their thinking. No, I’ve allowed the Constitution to cloud my thinking. ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/227 "2010-08-11T18:23:08Z")
> [@jaxbus4000](#): > > Just another item that will further divide the country and shows how brainwashed people have become. To me, it’s a no brainer, and we should not allow them to build it there. But again, most have allowed “political correctness” to cloud their thinking. The First Amendment. Look into it. Congress shall make no law… ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/228 "2010-08-11T18:40:20Z")
> [@jaxbus4000](#): > > Just another item that will further divide the country and shows how brainwashed people have become. To me, it’s a no brainer, and we should not allow them to build it there. But again, most have allowed “political correctness” to cloud their thinking. I’m sorry, but you have the U.S. mistaken for someplace without guaranteed freedoms of religion and speech. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/229 "2010-08-11T18:41:18Z")
> [@jaxbus4000](#): > > Just another item that will further divide the country and shows how brainwashed people have become. To me, it’s a no brainer, and we should not allow them to build it there. But again, most have allowed “political correctness” to cloud their thinking. No brainer seems appropriate, then. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/230 "2010-08-11T19:35:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Murrah building wasn’t attacked by anyone invoking a religious purpose. That would be like saying any crime committed by a Christian/Muslim/Jew was religious in intent. > > But if you had asked an honest question about a Fred Phelps church located next to the murder of 1000’s of gays, then hell fucking yes I would object. In other words, in your view the problem isn’t terrorism. The problem is Islam itself. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/231 "2010-08-11T19:56:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Murrah building wasn’t attacked by anyone invoking a religious purpose. That would be like saying any crime committed by a Christian/Muslim/Jew was religious in intent. > > But if you had asked an honest question about a Fred Phelps church located next to the murder of 1000’s of gays, then hell fucking yes I would object. If comparing the Kansas City bombing to the 9/11 attacks is dishonest, how does one characterize the comparison of this mosque to Westboro Baptist? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/232 "2010-08-11T20:27:51Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > The Murrah building wasn’t attacked by anyone invoking a religious purpose. That would be like saying any crime committed by a Christian/Muslim/Jew was religious in intent. > > > > But if you had asked an honest question about a Fred Phelps church located next to the murder of 1000’s of gays, then hell fucking yes I would object. > > In other words, in your view the problem isn’t terrorism. The problem is Islam itself. Is that what I said? Did I blame all of Christendom based on Fred Phelp’s church? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/233 "2010-08-11T20:46:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@Lemur866](#): > > > > In other words, in your view the problem isn’t terrorism. The problem is Islam itself. > > Is that what I said? Did I blame all of Christendom based on Fred Phelp’s church? You appear to be saying that the Cordoba group is the exact same thing as the 911 bombers. That’s like saying the Catholic Church is the exact same thing as the abortion clinic bombers. Can’t you see that your argument isn’t rational? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/234 "2010-08-11T20:50:53Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > Is that what I said? Did I blame all of Christendom based on Fred Phelp’s church? > > You appear to be saying that the Cordoba group is the exact same thing as the 911 bombers. That’s like saying the Catholic Church is the exact same thing as the abortion clinic bombers. > > Can’t you see that your argument isn’t rational? No no, he’s been saying that WE DON’T KNOW they’re not the same and some nebulous someone should investigate just to make double-secret-sure that Cordoba House isn’t a al-Qaeda front, but somehow the forces of political correctness are preventing this from happening. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/235 "2010-08-11T21:08:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Is that what I said? Did I blame all of Christendom based on Fred Phelp’s church? Well, let’s see. Your analogy was–Westboro Baptist:killing gays::Cordoba House:9/11. But how does that work exactly? After all, the Cordoba House guys aren’t part of Al Qaida, aren’t terrorists, don’t celebrate the death of Americans, and so on. So the only way Cordoba House could be the equivalent to Westboro Baptist, is if every Muslim is equivalent to Fred Phelps. In other words, you really mean–Westboro Baptist:killing gays::Islam:9/11. Correct? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/236 "2010-08-11T21:36:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You appear to be saying that the Cordoba group is the exact same thing as the 911 bombers. That’s like saying the Catholic Church is the exact same thing as the abortion clinic bombers. > > Can’t you see that your argument isn’t rational? I was addressing the idea that the Murrah building was destroyed for religious reasons because Mcveigh was a Christian. It was not. If it was, I would object to a Church associated with the violence being built near the grounds. I gave an example of Fred Phelp’s church. I have not objected to the mosque but I do acknowledge that the money to build it is beyond it’s resources. I also acknowledge the sensitivity of the area. It’s not up for discussion that many people in New York feel this way. The idea that the money trail be established to assuage those concerns is a logical step for a community center designed to bridge cultural gaps. ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/237 "2010-08-11T22:19:28Z")
> [@jaxbus4000](#): > > Just another item that will further divide the country and shows how brainwashed people have become. To me, it’s a no brainer, and we should not allow them to build it there. But again, most have allowed “political correctness” to cloud their thinking. Suppose I want to be deliberately stupid and say I disagree that it’s a no-brainer. How would you describe the reasoning that led you to that statement? Is it different than reasoning that’s already been posted in this thread? If so, I’d like to hear your argument, and if not, I’d like to know which other poster best describes your reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/238 "2010-08-11T23:09:27Z")
> [@jaxbus4000](#): > > Just another item that will further divide the country and shows how brainwashed people have become. To me, it’s a no brainer, and we should not allow them to build it there. But again, most have allowed “political correctness” to cloud their thinking. Ahh! “Political correctness,” the meaningless phrase that is trotted out when one wishes to indicate that one wants to say nasty things, but does not actually wish to be held accountable for the hatred or illogic that one would display in such statements. There is no logical reason why a group that has functioned in a section of Manhattan for nearly thirty years, serving people who have lived there nearly forty years, should be prohibited from building a community center in that same neighborhood–one that will not even be visible from the WTC location–simply because some other people of a different sect of their religion did something bad. Unreasoning hatred works as a “reason,” but that would require one to expose one’s ideas to actual analysis. It is much better to claim that one “cannot” say the right thing because of some vaguely mentioned “political correctness.” ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/239 "2010-08-12T01:58:11Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > I have already voiced my opinions that the building of a Mosque on Ground Zero is an offense. I have received no support from any of my fellow Americans. I don’t normally say I’m proud to be an American (usually I say I’m _lucky_ to be an American) but your statement made me proud of Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/240 "2010-08-12T02:12:30Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I don’t normally say I’m proud to be an American (usually I say I’m _lucky_ to be an American) but your statement made me proud of Americans. Unless the bar has been lowered drastically since the last time I looked, there’s not much pride to be found in \*not \*being a frothing xenophobic douche. To paraphrase Chris Rock, “Hey, I don’t shit on Muslims ! - What do you want, a cookie ?!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=13)