# Mosque to be built two blocks from Ground Zero **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432 "2010-05-14T14:36:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/21 "2010-05-14T15:46:06Z")
We’re all talking about the same facility, actually. CNN couldn’t be bothered to make up a map or mention the streets where the mosque and center might be built, but some googling indicates it’s the same project, location, and people. Way to fucking go, CNN. I can’t understand why you’re hemorrhaging viewers. The article in the OP is from December. It sounds like the plans have expanded since then, and as a result the opening of the center is planned for three to five years from now instead of in a year and a half. [This Fox article attempts to do a lot of shit-stirring but it does indicate that a community center includes a mosque, that it involves the same imam and the same backers.](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/14/plan-build-mosque-near-ground-zero-riles-families-victims/?test=latestnews) They also don’t see fit to mention that this is being backed by Sufis. I’m a little less threatened by Sufis than I am by Wahhabists. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/22 "2010-05-14T15:48:49Z")
Maybe this is a good plan. Put mosques near or in our governmant facilities so the terrorists would lose face if they destroyed their own places of worship. ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/23 "2010-05-14T15:49:34Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/nyregion/09mosque.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/nyregion/09mosque.html) > > First off, I have respect for the Islam faith and the Muslim community. I also realize that it was extremists that executed the attacks on the World Trade Center. However, does anyone else think that MAYBE it’s a bit insensitive to erect a mosque in the very shadow of Ground Zero and have the ribbon cutting on September 11th, 2011? I mean, of all places why did they choose THERE to build? Isn’t there a possibility of more lives being lost from anti-Islamic groups? Well, Obama needs a place to pray when he is in NYC, doesn’t he? Do I really need a disclaimer here? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/24 "2010-05-14T15:50:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We’re all talking about the same facility, actually. CNN couldn’t be bothered to make up a map or mention the streets where the mosque and center might be built, but some googling indicates it’s the same project, location, and people. Way to fucking go, CNN. I can’t understand why you’re hemorrhaging viewers. Like I said up-thread, typical CNN online crap. “Somebody somewhere did something vaguely newsworthy (if you’re lucky) and we’re going to tell you in as few words as possible because we’re not getting the same revenue percentage from the website as we are from the tv channel.” > [@](#): > > They also don’t see fit to mention that this is being backed by Sufis. I’m a little less threatened by Sufis than I am by Wahhabists. I hate to generalize, but 95 out of 100 non-Muslim Americans wouldn’t know the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/25 "2010-05-14T15:53:58Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I hate to generalize, but 95 out of 100 non-Muslim Americans wouldn’t know the difference. Maybe so. But the Times did a good job with it, and it’s worth noting you’re not going to hear a lot of ‘death to America’ out of Sufis. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/26 "2010-05-14T15:55:22Z")
> [@gumpy3885](#): > > What would be an appropriate distance? 3 blocks? 6 blocks? Not on Manhattan Island? Who gets to decide? As anything Islam-related out of bounds? Or just mosques? What about a bookstore focused on Islamic literature? > > This is just a trumped up article going for the emotional reaction rather than anything substantive. 9/11 will forever stir up an emotional reaction, especially where the families of those who perished are concerned. Although I don’t condone ANY hatred or violence towards the Islamic community and this community center specifically, I can understand the outrage. When a member of your family has been murdered, rationality tends to take a back seat. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/27 "2010-05-14T16:03:36Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > 9/11 will forever stir up an emotional reaction, especially where the families of those who perished are concerned. Although I don’t condone ANY hatred or violence towards the Islamic community and this community center specifically, I can understand the outrage. When a member of your family has been murdered, rationality tends to take a back seat. That doesn’t mean that it’s either right, or that it should be indulged after almost a decade. If you can’t come back to rationality 8 1/2 years after the event happened, you need therapy, not demagoguery. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/28 "2010-05-14T16:04:47Z")
I’d say that allowing a mosque to be built near Ground Zero is about as good a job at flipping off the terrorists as one can get. _Their_ belief is that we’re evil and hate Islam and the Middle East and so on. Showing that we’re perfectly respectful to mainstream Islam and its people is just a demonstration of why they have no idea what they’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/29 "2010-05-14T16:11:43Z")
Some of the September 11 families are emotional on this subject, and while I think the opposition to this is totally irrational, it’s a little callous to suggest one of them might firebomb the mosque if it gets built. If something like that happened it would probably be a random lunatic who took it on himself to stand up “for” them. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/30 "2010-05-14T16:39:26Z")
> [@](#): > > I hate to generalize, but 95 out of 100 non-Muslim Americans wouldn’t know the difference. This. Therein lies the rub. I would hazard to say that most Americans are still under the misguided misconception that Muslim = terrorist. They still can’t wrap their heads around the simple truth that the attacks were staged by a handful of extremists. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/31 "2010-05-14T18:10:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’d say that allowing a mosque to be built near Ground Zero is about as good a job at flipping off the terrorists as one can get. _Their_ belief is that we’re evil and hate Islam and the Middle East and so on. Showing that we’re perfectly respectful to mainstream Islam and its people is just a demonstration of why they have no idea what they’re talking about. It’s worked well so far, hasn’t it. The terrorists don’t want all people of different religions to live in harmony, they want to rid the world of non-Muslim infidels, and then when that is done they’ll rid the world of the Muslim infidels who are not of the right sect. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/32 "2010-05-14T18:13:23Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > It’s worked well so far, hasn’t it. The terrorists don’t want all people of different religions to live in harmony, they want to rid the world of non-Muslim infidels, and then when that is done they’ll rid the world of the Muslim infidels who are not of the right sect. Fortuantely, they’re unable to prioritize and have killed a lot more Muslims than anyone else. Intrasectarian fighting is often a lot worse than fighting between religions. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/33 "2010-05-14T18:26:46Z")
The glurge for this started a few days ago on facebook for me. I already got ostentatiously de-friended by someone for replying to her post on the subject with “The Muslims who are building this community center have exactly as much in common with Al Qaeda as your Roman Catholic Irish self has with the perpetrators of the Omagh bombing.” ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/34 "2010-05-14T19:06:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They also don’t see fit to mention that this is being backed by Sufis. I’m a little less threatened by Sufis than I am by Wahhabists. I grant that most Americans don’t know the difference, but I agree. Sufis are about as threatening as Quakers. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/35 "2010-05-14T19:20:50Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > 9/11 will forever stir up an emotional reaction Remember the Maine! ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/36 "2010-05-14T19:34:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Some of the September 11 families are emotional on this subject, and while I think the opposition to this is totally irrational, it’s a little callous to suggest one of them might firebomb the mosque if it gets built. If something like that happened **it would probably be a random lunatic who took it on himself to stand up “for” them**. Yeah, but unfortunately if that were to happen the way it would get painted in the Muslim world abroad would be “See? The infidels do hate us!”. Not that it matters much. Haters are going to hate no matter what we do, apparently. I say build it, and use it as anti-propaganda against the anti-Muslim memes in the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/37 "2010-05-14T20:00:18Z")
Osama Bin Ladan once said that he will use our freedom to destroy it, if I remember his translated quote correctly, we need to be able to allow freedom to all, including the Muslim people if we want them to experience it and perhaps chose it. Do we want to express hatred or love to them? What is more likely to open up to others and become a good part of our society? Then those who object will see the errors of preventing people from living in freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/38 "2010-05-14T20:08:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Osama Bin Ladan once said that he will use our freedom to destroy it, if I remember his translated quote correctly, we need to be able to allow freedom to all, including the Muslim people if we want them to experience it and perhaps chose it. Do we want to express hatred or love to them? What is more likely to open up to others and become a good part of our society? Then those who object will see the errors of preventing people from living in freedom. Hey kanicbird, have you ever considered starting some sort of e-church? With, like, a regular blogged or podcasted sermon? I’d listen. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/39 "2010-05-14T20:08:52Z")
Slight hijack, but I think this is an important misunderstanding… > [@appleciders](#): > > I grant that most Americans don’t know the difference, but I agree. Sufis are about as threatening as Quakers. Sufism does NOT equal pacifism. Sufis are just Islamic mystics and that does not imply any inherent moderation. Within sufism you can in fact find some of the most liberal Muslims( including actual pacifists ), but also some pretty retrograde extremists. While you won’t find any Wahhabi sufis ( mutually exclusive ), you _can_ find Deobandi sufis and Deobandism is an intellectual kissing cousin of Wahhabism. The Taliban are heavily influenced by Deobandism. Now it is probably reasonable to consider sufis more moderate _in general_. For example some ex-Soviet Central Asian countries were at one time promoting Naqshbandi sufism in particular as a type of inoculant to slow the spread of more pernicious Islamic fundamentalism. And I’d guess that any sufi group setting up in NYC are probably pretty moderate/liberal as such things go. But it’s best to be clear about such things. Sufism comes in many different flavors, in fact even within the same ostensible sufi orders you get a lot of variance. So while it is often a more moderate face of Islam, it is not automatically so. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/40 "2010-05-14T20:22:21Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > The glurge for this started a few days ago on facebook for me. I already got ostentatiously de-friended by someone for replying to her post on the subject with “The Muslims who are building this community center have exactly as much in common with Al Qaeda as your Roman Catholic Irish self has with the perpetrators of the Omagh bombing.” “Ostentatiously de-friended,” eh? Looks like a guilty conscience to me. Better look up the number for the Royal Ulster Constabulary and drop a dime on her. ETA: Whoops, they’re the PSNI these days, apparently. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=3)