# Mosque to be built two blocks from Ground Zero **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432 "2010-05-14T14:36:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/381 "2010-08-16T18:50:11Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > On a blog where I am discussing this, I asked what an acceptable distance from Ground Zero would be and someone said “how about a mile?” Does anyone happen to know how many mosques are _already_ located within a mile of the WTC spot? The one on Warren Street is probably the only one if it qualifies as a mosque. (But if we’re counting the Park Place building as a mosque than that one would also count.) There’s an Islamic center maybe two miles away on the Lower East Side. There are other mosques and Islamic centers in midtown, but it looks like there are more of them in Brooklyn and Queens. I guess that makes sense given the immigration history of New York. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/382 "2010-08-16T18:58:59Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > land once conquered for Islam can never be given back. Any chance of you dropping this canard in the near future? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/383 "2010-08-16T19:02:29Z")
There’s quite a lot of ignorance being spread in this thread. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s not like many Christians don’t still want to massacre or enslave the unbelievers. Actually it is like many Christians don’t still want to massacre or enslave the unbelievers. > [@Valteron](#): > > a large majority of Americans (and a majority of New Yorkers) indicate in a poll that they find the proposed mosque/Islamic centre so close to ground zero to be, in their opinion, offensive According to this week’s _New Yorker_, the majority of residents of New York do not find it offensive and want the construction to go forward. In Manhattan, 75% of the population is in favor of it. And when the Manhattan Board of Supervisors voted on it, 29 of 30 were in favor. So your claim about polling is inaccurate. There may have been two polls with conflicting results, but even so you shouldn’t be claiming that the majority of New Yorkers agree with you on this issue. > [@newcomer](#): > > a country that has military base in almost every country in the world The United States has many military bases in places where they don’t belong, but it’s not true to say we have a base in “almost every country in the world”. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/384 "2010-08-16T19:47:35Z")
Rush Limbaugh moment - heard on the radio while scooting out for lunch today: Debris from when the second plane hit the towers landed on the Park51 building, therefore it \*\*\*is \*\*\*at Ground Zero. I’m not sure what that proves, but there you have it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/385 "2010-08-16T20:26:51Z")
Well, if you think about it, the 9/11 attacks encompassed not only lower Manhattan, but Washington, D.C. too. So really, everything from Soho to the Mall is Ground Zero. Are there any mosques in Maryland or eastern Pennsylvania? They must be destroyed! ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/386 "2010-08-16T21:06:53Z")
> [@qpw3141](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > Sounds remarkably like Christianity. Perhaps we should ban churches near the site as well. > > Indeed. > > You would think that a lot of people have never heard of the [**Crusades**.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades) Or how the term “ethnic cleansing” made it into mainstream speech? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/387 "2010-08-16T21:20:42Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The United States has many military bases in places where they don’t belong, but it’s not true to say we have a base in “almost every country in the world”. Total of 193 countries in UN. For obvious reasons exclude 47 countries in Africa and you get 146. Dismiss further at least 60 small countries (under one million of inhabitants) you get about 84 significant countries. 63 out of 84 is …well, best record in history and with notable exceptions such as Russia, Iran and South Korea we can agree that it’s pretty much, colloquially speaking, most of the countries in the world. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/388 "2010-08-16T22:03:42Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > For obvious reasons exclude 47 countries in Africa and you get 146. I don’t want to be uptight about this, but why would you summarily dismiss all of Africa? Sure, few African countries are really global players, but for the love of God they are still _countries_. Africa gets passed over, left behind, stereotyped and ignored enough as it is. I don’t think it’s a good idea to continue that! Sure, for you Africa may not be a big deal, but the 1 billion people who live there probably don’t appreciate you just wiping them off the planet like that. Perhaps you should phrase things “every major country on Earth” or “every major economic power on Earth.” ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/389 "2010-08-16T22:36:57Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > > > The United States has many military bases in places where they don’t belong, but it’s not true to say we have a base in “almost every country in the world”. > > Total of 193 countries in UN. > > For obvious reasons exclude 47 countries in Africa and you get 146. > Dismiss further at least 60 small countries (under one million of inhabitants) you get about 84 significant countries. > > 63 out of 84 is …well, best record in history and with notable exceptions such as Russia, Iran and South Korea we can agree that it’s pretty much, colloquially speaking, most of the countries in the world. This is ridiculous. Counting countries that the UN doesn’t, there are just over 200 countries on Earth. 63/200 ≈ 30%. 30% is not “most”. Full stop. ETA: where did you get the “63” from? EATA: if you [look at a map](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/US_military_bases_in_the_world.svg/2000px-US_military_bases_in_the_world.svg.png), it’s even farther from “most”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/390 "2010-08-16T22:50:27Z")
Tossing out more than 100 countries and all of Africa is not “speaking colloquially,” it’s cherry picking. And not in a subtle way, either. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/391 "2010-08-17T01:14:41Z")
That map suggests there are lots of U.S. troops in Canada. But the U.S. has no base in Canada. There may be troops here, but I imagine they’d be on exchange programs and postings at NORAD and stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/392 "2010-08-17T02:26:08Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > The constant demand that opponents of the mosque define how far away from ground zero the building must be is a false argument, because it is up to the Muslims to recognize that the proposed Cordoba House (named after a city in Spain once conquered and controlled by Islam) is offending a lot of people in America and the world. > . . . > And let us ask people like Tomndebb and others to flip the question around. Let us ask them: “How close is too close?” What if a giant mega-mosque built on the very site of the WTC had a plaque on it with the quote from the Koran, “Death will find you, though you live in high towers” (which was widely quoted in the Muslim world after 9-11) would you find that tasteless and provocative? You do realize that the question “how far away is far enough?” is only prompted by the repeated idiotic rant that it is “too close,” right? As far as I am concerned, the proposed building could be on Liberty St. at the corner of Washington St., (which is as close as one can get to the location of WTC 2 without actually entering the site), and it would be quite appropriate. On the other hand, a storefront mosque that could only provide seating for a dozen people, led by a Wahabbist imam, would be inappropriate anywhere in Manhattan. My criticism of the opponents to the current plan is based on their mouth-foaming hatred of all things Muslim, with no regard for the differences among the various Muslim sects, combined with their blatant and willful ignorance, xenophobia, and dishonesty. Now, I realize that not everyone would be as accepting as I am regarding a group that has actually been in the neighborhood for decades and who have spent their entire time, there, promoting better understanding; some people just need to hate that which they choose to misunderstand. However, when people make up lies about it being “at” the WTC site–when the two sites will not even be visible to each other–then I am going to point out that such a claim is a lie and I will ask how far away it needs to be. I will not ask why they are so worked up about the matter, because I have already seen their responses–responses that are rooted in willful ignorance and xenophobia. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/393 "2010-08-17T04:10:37Z")
I found this CNN video hilarious… [Video News - CNN](http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/08/15/nr.islamic.center.debate.cnn?hpt=Sbin) Don Lemon simply undresses Tim Brown, a retired NY firefighter and WTC survivor. By the end, he’s babbling. For the record, I can’t even believe that this is a debate. It’s discussions like these that make me think I’m insane. If 79% of all Americans vote to effectively demote in class one religion versus others, we’re surely doomed. If the Church of Devil Worshippers and Child Molestors (must be both to join) chose to open up a WTC Branch, the story _might_ have made it into the New York Times Metro section. In my opinion, religions should all be demoted. But I wouldn’t vote that way…simply out of respect for the purpose of this country’s existence. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/394 "2010-08-17T04:16:26Z")
I suspect this mosque would feature good musicians. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/395 "2010-08-17T04:50:24Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I found this CNN video hilarious… [http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/08/15/nr.islamic.center.debate.cnn?hpt=Sbin](http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/08/15/nr.islamic.center.debate.cnn?hpt=Sbin) > > Don Lemon simply undresses Tim Brown, a retired NY firefighter and WTC survivor. By the end, he’s babbling. Did you watch the same video I did? No one took anyone apart. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/396 "2010-08-17T05:07:56Z")
**Love Rhombus** : When I click on that link, I get a video about flooding in Pakistan. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/397 "2010-08-17T09:13:05Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > > [@hobscrk777](#): > > > > My biggest fear about this entire issue is that, regardless of the beliefs of the people behind the religious center, this contentious national debate is sure to add fuel to the extremists’ fire. > > Have you read the Koran and its mutiple calls to war against and strike down the infidel? Have you read the Old Testament and its approval of rape and genocide assisted land grabs? ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/398 "2010-08-17T10:07:36Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I found this CNN video hilarious… [http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/08/15/nr.islamic.center.debate.cnn?hpt=Sbin](http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/08/15/nr.islamic.center.debate.cnn?hpt=Sbin) > > Don Lemon simply undresses Tim Brown, a retired NY firefighter and WTC survivor. By the end, he’s babbling. Certainly not my impression from watching the video. Whilst I don’t agree with the fireman I think he presented his case in a calm and dignified manner and without being unnecessarily offensive to anyone. I think people so directly involved with such a tragedy should be cut a little slack if their opinions are somewhat more concentrated than others. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/399 "2010-08-17T15:20:20Z")
Why do we care if a building with a mosque in it is built at ground 2? It is not at ground zero. It is a couple blocks away in what was a Burlington Coat Factory. I never felt Burlington was shrine like. If you don’t want the community center built ,then try to get the strip joint leveled. At least be consistent. This is an attack on the Muslim religion and the world will see it that way. It is shameful and the opportunistic right wingers manufactured outrage for political points. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/400 "2010-08-17T16:24:26Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > > [@Valteron](#): > > > > Have you read the Koran and its mutiple calls to war against and strike down the infidel? > > Have you read the Old Testament and its approval of rape and genocide assisted land grabs? The difference would be in the application. The WTC is example of that application. The Imam associated with this particular mosque has made statements that call into question his views on the events of 9/11. The location of the Mosque is in a commercial district away from residential locations. It is financially beyond the capacity of his group. It’s hard not to view it as a deliberate attempt to plant a flag of victory over the destruction of the WTC. I don’t see how this project will work toward the stated goal of building cultural bridges. It has failed before the first nail is driven. If it’s built it will become a permanent focal point for Muslims who approved of the attack as well as those focused on the reality of Islamic terrorism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=21)