# Mosque to be built two blocks from Ground Zero **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432 "2010-05-14T14:36:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/401 "2010-08-17T16:32:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s hard not to view it as a deliberate attempt to plant a flag of victory over the destruction of the WTC. For some people, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/402 "2010-08-17T16:32:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s hard not to view it as a deliberate attempt to plant a flag of victory over the destruction of the WTC. Actually, if you’ve been paying attention, it’s very hard to adopt your interpretation. It’s about as far from a “flag of victory” as you can get. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/403 "2010-08-17T16:43:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It is financially beyond the capacity of his group. I am not sure why you are treating this as suspicious. Of course it’s beyond their financial capacity. They have been open about the fact that they are going to raise money for the building. > [@](#): > > It’s hard not to view it as a deliberate attempt to plant a flag of victory over the destruction of the WTC. Actually it’s extraordinarily easy not to view it that way. It’s unfortunate you’ve taken that view, but to do so, you have to ignore the plans for the building and the group’s history and it’s stated purpose in favor of a blanket view of Islam. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/404 "2010-08-17T16:47:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Imam associated with this particular mosque has made statements that call into question his views on the events of 9/11. Like what specifically? [JS points out](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/17/stewart-rips-fox-news-for_1_n_684467.html) that Glen Beck finds fault with the Imam’s words that he himself echoed a few months earlier. We need to be more realistic than emotional in our reaction. Calling our history of involvement in the ME into question is not the same as claiming, we deserved it. > [@](#): > > The location of the Mosque is in a commercial district away from residential locations. It is financially beyond the capacity of his group. It’s hard not to view it as a deliberate attempt to plant a flag of victory over the destruction of the WTC. Holy Crap. It only seems that way if you ignore all the factual details and choose to see all Muslims in the same light as terrorists. The area it’s in is has several vacent buildings years after 9/11. They got this building cheap by NYC standards. You cannot see the WTC site from the proposed community center nor the center from the WTC site. That’s some victory flag. The whole thing is fear mongering diversion that makes politics so disgusting. Rather than focus on relevant issues and real world solutions lets creation emotion with irrelevant side issues. > [@](#): > > I don’t see how this project will work toward the stated goal of building cultural bridges. It has failed before the first nail is driven. If it’s built it will become a permanent focal point for Muslims who approved of the attack as well as those focused on the reality of Islamic terrorism. Maybe the thought police can monitor the place. It’s a community center whose facilities , a basketball court, a culinary school, will be open to the public, not just Muslims. It really gets me how the right can become so enraged claiming that Obama is dismantling the constitution and then be so eager to ignore it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/405 "2010-08-17T16:52:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Valteron](#): > > > > Have you read the Koran and its mutiple calls to war against and strike down the infidel? Have you heard Muslim preachers promise that Islam will dominate the world? Do you realize that your refusal to become a Muslim is provocation enough for jihadists? > > Sounds remarkably like Christianity. Perhaps we should ban churches near the site as well. There are already several there. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/406 "2010-08-17T17:09:05Z")
Sorry if this has already been done in this thread but let’s acknowledge that [Muslim Americans were also killed in the 9/11](http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm) attack and are numbered among the victims that make it hallowed ground. Let’s hope that Democrats other than Ried, show some freakin balls on this issue. Stand up for the constitution and take a stand against a bogus issue raised out of emotions fueled by ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/407 "2010-08-17T17:52:54Z")
Ripped off from another board but I thought this was funny: (Warning: very mildly NSFW). [![](https://balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/TacgJ.jpg) ](https://balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/TacgJ.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/408 "2010-08-17T17:55:54Z")
Good to see **Magiver** still hard at work waving the flag of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/409 "2010-08-17T18:07:24Z")
Incidentally, the area around Ground Zero is really some [hallowed ground](http://daryllang.com/blog/4421). ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/410 "2010-08-17T18:10:45Z")
[Once again, Canada is ahead](http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100816/CGY_Ramadan_church_100816/20100816/?hub=CalgaryHome). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/411 "2010-08-17T18:17:29Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Incidentally, the area around Ground Zero is really some [hallowed ground](http://daryllang.com/blog/4421). I defy anyone in this thread to go to YouTube, listen to someone singing “God Bless America,” and scroll through these pictures without crying. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/412 "2010-08-17T19:05:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@jayjay](#): > > > > Incidentally, the area around Ground Zero is really some [hallowed ground](http://daryllang.com/blog/4421). > > I defy anyone in this thread to go to YouTube, listen to someone singing “God Bless America,” and scroll through these pictures without crying. \*O beautiful for stripper poles And amber arches sweet For t-shirt stands and barbecue Along the hallowed street . . . \* ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/413 "2010-08-17T19:42:57Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > [Once again, Canada is ahead](http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100816/CGY_Ramadan_church_100816/20100816/?hub=CalgaryHome). I will forever remember that article for the name “Waqar Butt Islamic”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/414 "2010-08-17T19:49:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@MostlyClueless](#): > > > > [Once again, Canada is ahead](http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100816/CGY_Ramadan_church_100816/20100816/?hub=CalgaryHome). > > I will forever remember that article for the name “Waqar Butt Islamic”. It’s a typo, but it’s a hell of a typo. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/415 "2010-08-17T19:58:46Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Ripped off from another board but I thought this was funny: (Warning: very mildly NSFW). > > [http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/TacgJ.jpg](http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/TacgJ.jpg) Quoted for damn truth. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/416 "2010-08-17T22:47:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s hard not to view it as a deliberate attempt to plant a flag of victory over the destruction of the WTC. Wait… wait… …Viewing… Viewing… No, it’s not hard at all. > [@](#): > > I don’t see how this project will work toward the stated goal of building cultural bridges. It has failed before the first nail is driven. The Freedom Riders pissed a lot of people off, too. History isn’t going to come down on the side of a bunch of retards. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/417 "2010-08-17T23:18:47Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > [Once again, Canada is ahead](http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100816/CGY_Ramadan_church_100816/20100816/?hub=CalgaryHome). In fairness, the United Church of Canada is comprised entirely of godless liberals. They’re all touchy feely war-opposing gay-marrying hippies! I mean, seriously, when the Catholics were threatening to excommunicate politicians for passing gay marriage here, they were arguing in favour. So they can hardly be taken to be real Christians! …aside from the fact that they’re the largest Protestant denomination in the country, that is. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/418 "2010-08-17T23:24:28Z")
As far as harm, risk, and insult to victims, I am far more concerned about how so many Catholic churches are built close to elementary schools. Naturally some of you will need this spelled out, so what I’m talking about is widespread institutional pedophilia, sex abuse, and coverup of the same. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/419 "2010-08-18T00:43:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Imam associated with this particular mosque has made statements that call into question his views on the events of 9/11. Incorrect. He has made statements that any thinking person should recognize as accurate and made them in a way that was not inflammatory. It is sad that some people in the U.S. are so devoted to hatred and ignorance that they will deliberately misconstrue his actual words, in context, but that is a reflection on them, not him. > [@Magiver](#): > > The location of the Mosque is in a commercial district away from residential locations. It is financially beyond the capacity of his group. It’s hard not to view it as a deliberate attempt to plant a flag of victory over the destruction of the WTC. The location of the community center is in the same neighborhood, (Tribeca), where the Cordoba Initiative has had every one of its offices for decades. It is merely insane to think that a Sufi group, with utterly no associations with Wahabbism, that has spent years promoting views of Islam that are in complete opposition to Wahabbist rhetoric, would be “celebrating” any kind of “victory” regarding the WTC attacks. > [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t see how this project will work toward the stated goal of building cultural bridges. It has failed before the first nail is driven. If it’s built it will become a permanent focal point for Muslims who approved of the attack as well as those focused on the reality of Islamic terrorism. Piffle. This is the equivalent of saying that any action by Amish or Quakers is automatically a “permanent focal point” for any action by the Aryan Nations sect of the Christian Identity movement, (all those Christians are just the same, after all). It requires willful ignorance of the Muslim world to even fantasize about such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/420 "2010-08-18T01:00:49Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > > [@tomndebb](#): > > > > . . . . their recruitment would be less successful if there were fewer actions by the U.S. that could be construed as offensive, and I would think that making their recruitment less successful would be a goal worth pursuing. > > Well, probably the most “offensive” action by the US is its support for Israel, the only functioning, liberal democracy in the area. Hamas (with whom the ground-zero Imam apparently has links, btw) and many other Muslims want to wipe Israel off the map, but cannot because of US support to the tiny state. You are displaying your tunnel vision and lack of historical awareness, again. While the U.S. support for Israel is a stumbling block for a great many Muslims in the Middle East, the U.S. has been successfully offending Muslims with many more actions than that. Support for the Shah of Iran and his suppression of many Muslim cultural actions earned the U.S. a lot of ill will, (and provided the Ayatollah Khomeini the wedge he needed to turn Iran into a repressive theocracy). Siding with Iraq, (while pretending neutrality), after Iraq invaded Iran, did nothing to endear the people of the region to the U.S. (Shooting down an Iranian airliner did nothing to make them love us, either.) The U.S. has also propped up the corrupt oligarchy of Saudi Aabia, (the action that actually prompted Osama bin Laden to turn to terrorism). The U.S. has also supported several other authoritarian regimes in the Middle East. Pretending that the only thing the U.S. has done to offend Muslim sensibilities has been to support Israel is simply another demonstration of willful ignorance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=22)