# Mosque to be built two blocks from Ground Zero **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432 "2010-05-14T14:36:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/661 "2010-08-23T02:02:55Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > > > Maybe he was the most moderate guy they could find. Rauf did say on _60 Minutes_ that the US was an accessory to 9/11 and that the rise of bin Laden was the US’s fault. I guess that’s moderate compared to blowing up a bus, but it doesn’t bode well for some sort of rapprochement. > > Have you ever read his exact words–all of them–in context? He was not claiming that the U.S. was an actual accessory to the attack, but that the actions of the U.S. in the Middle East were often ham-handed, causing many in that region to distrust and hate the U.S. While there are contingent of “_the U.S. can do no wrong_” people who would deny that, most observers would note that there is a fair amount of truth in the statement. Even those, such as I, who consider the WTC/Pentagon attacks to be wholly unjustified are going to include people who recognize that the U.S. has not been particularly brilliant in its dealings in the Middle East. > As to bin Laden, he got his first experience fighting alongside the proto-Taliban in Afghanistan as one of the people the U.S. used as proxy fighters against the U.S.S.R. > > You may not like that news, but Rauf was hardly incorrect in his observations. You appear to just want to shoot the messenger. > > > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > > > I distrust the Cordoba Institute because of what I _do_ know, not because of what I don’t know. > > > > Frankly, I don’t think Islam has anything to offer the United States (do you, and if so, what?) I think Islam is as fundamentally at odds with American principles as any belief system ever has been. The more “dialogue,” the more people will realize this. Rauf would be better to let sleeping dogs lie, i.e. let those in the US with “COEXIST” bumper stickers, believing Islam means “peace” and not “submission,” go on their merry way instead of arousing their curiosity as to what it’s really all about. > > Your view of “Islam” has nothing to do with actual Islam. You appear to conflate the Wahabbism of bin Laden with all the myriad separate groups throughout the world. Throughout history, different groups of Muslims have been noble and vile, educated and opposed to knowledge, enlightened and depraved. Lumping them all together with an emphasis on what you perceive as bad simply means that when you encounter one who could be a friend, you alienate him or her with your prejudice. > I make no claim that “Islam” has anything to offer this country–any more than does Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Atheism, or any other system of belief or unbelief. I do note that, just as members of all those other groups, Muslims are already here and they are not going away. I prefer to see groups that are working to encourage peaceful cooperation not be condemned out of unthinking hatred. Ramadan 2010 Scorecard Day 12 In the name of The Religion of Peace, Islam. Terror Attacks 70 Dead Bodies 284 In the name of All Other Religions NONE > **[Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth](https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)** > > Is Islam really a Religion of Peace? What makes Islam so different? I’m so happy that you are a god to know a good Mulsim from a bad one. Don ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/662 "2010-08-23T02:09:46Z")
I can’t even keep up with the two-minutes of hate anymore. First it was blacks, then gays, then Mexicans, now Muslims. This is a completely artificial controversy generated for purely political reasons. On top of it, we’re supposed to be building shining beacons of pluralistic democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq (and what about those poor Iranians who are just itching to build their own beacon). If all Muslims are evil people who are just itching to get their Sharia on, then our entire strategy in the Middle East has been stupid from the very start. If, on the other hand, Afghanis, Iraqis, and Iranians are capable of supporting pluralistic democracy, then it should follow that at least some Muslims are capable of building such a place in lower Manhattan. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/663 "2010-08-23T02:14:43Z")
[QUOTE] > [@Don123](#): > > you are ignorant of the life that Mohammad lived 1400 years ago. Really? but I saw the movie! > [@](#): > > Accordingly what you, and other Muslim lovers, need to do is get educated before any intelligent conversation can take place. I have to stop being a nigger lover first. I can only take irrational unreasoning bigotry in small doses. You know, like the clap. > [@](#): > > You are inviting a poison snake into your house and you are way too ignorant to know it. You’re the that seems to have the most venom. > [@](#): > > Islam should be banned in its entirety, that is if you care about the USA > > Don and not at all about the Constitution and the principles we were founded on. You remember them right? They’re the ones you speak of when you talk about what our armed forces are sacrificing their lives for. By why let all that stand in the way of ignorance and bigotry? It’s not as if we’ve been fighting that since this country began. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/664 "2010-08-23T02:15:07Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > …I’m so happy that you are a god to know a good Mulsim from a bad one… Luckily, the difference between a good bigot and a bad bigot is pretty easy. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/665 "2010-08-23T02:15:15Z")
[http://whiteprideonline.blogspot.com/2010/08/ramadan-2010-scorecard.html](http://whiteprideonline.blogspot.com/2010/08/ramadan-2010-scorecard.html) ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/666 "2010-08-23T02:16:01Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Just drop it, cosmos. done. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/667 "2010-08-23T02:17:45Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > Well then your are totally ignorant of the Islamic religion, the Koran, Hadith and Islamic history. You are totally ignorant on how Islam is practiced, you have no knowledge of Islamic countries and their culture, Islamic Sharia law, and you are ignorant of the life that Mohammad lived 1400 years ago. Have you ever visited a majority-Muslim country, **Don**? Hell, have you ever left the US? Your home state? Your parents’ basement? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/668 "2010-08-23T02:35:38Z")
\*\*TWEEEET! OK. Let’s all drop the personal attacks. [/Moderating]\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/669 "2010-08-23T02:58:52Z")
Obama’s Muslim Outreach, a.k.a., the Ground Zero mosque, [http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38594](http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38594) This article, as with others, will not be open to discussion by me. The reason being the management of this board will refuse the reprinting of this article to make points, so there is nothing for me to talk about. Go on ahead and lie your guts out saying you read it when you did not, or lie misquoting the article, or lie about it for any other reason you see fitting, as the management will refuse the quoting in context of the information. I posted this article for your information only, so good luck to you. Don ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/670 "2010-08-23T03:02:04Z")
What points would you like to quote from the article? It doesn’t seem to make any, except that Obama has reached out to the Muslim world. ETA: that site opened a prompt to sign up for their newsletters, too. I Alt + F4ed out of it so I don’t know if it’s a loop. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/671 "2010-08-23T03:17:54Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > This article, as with others, will not be open to discussion by me. The reason being the management of this board will refuse the reprinting of this article to make points, so there is nothing for me to talk about. Don, for heavens sake, read the registration agreement (under ‘FAQ’ on the menu bar at the top of the page). Here’s the relevant excerpt: [Quote=SDMB FAQ] You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by the operator of the SDMB, except as permitted by the “fair use” provisions of the U.S. copyright laws (in general this means brief excerpts only). [/Quote] This has been a long-standing policy here. Posting full articles, or large portions thereof, violates the copyright of the article owner, and therefore raises potential legal issues. Whether you care to believe so or not, you are not being singled out on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/672 "2010-08-23T03:17:55Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > I posted this article for your information only, so good luck to you. Come back! I was going to make espresso! ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/673 "2010-08-23T03:19:43Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > I posted this article for your information only, so good luck to you. > > Come back! I was going to make espresso! Hey, that’s like that Turkish coffee isn’t it Akbar? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/674 "2010-08-23T03:21:08Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > This article, as with others, will not be open to discussion by me. The reason being the management of this board will refuse the reprinting of this article to make points, so there is nothing for me to talk about. Go on ahead and lie your guts out saying you read it when you did not, or lie misquoting the article, or lie about it for any other reason you see fitting, as the management will refuse the quoting in context of the information. It is not permitted to accuse other posters in this forum of lying, you will refrain from making claims that others have or will lie. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/675 "2010-08-23T03:35:27Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I can’t even keep up with the two-minutes of hate anymore. First it was blacks, then gays, then Mexicans, now Muslims. This is a completely artificial controversy generated for purely political reasons. > > On top of it, we’re supposed to be building shining beacons of pluralistic democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq (and what about those poor Iranians who are just itching to build their own beacon). If all Muslims are evil people who are just itching to get their Sharia on, then our entire strategy in the Middle East has been stupid from the very start. If, on the other hand, Afghanis, Iraqis, and Iranians are capable of supporting pluralistic democracy, then it should follow that at least some Muslims are capable of building such a place in lower Manhattan. As I said I happy that you are a god to know a good muslim from a bad one. But perhaps you should go by the Koran? Here are 630 verses in the koran of doom, burning, beheading, and murders to non-believers. [Skeptic's Annotated Bible / Quran / Book of Mormon](http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/topics/doom.html) look up the verses on the net for over 6 translations, they all say the same. Don ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/676 "2010-08-23T03:36:31Z")
> [@](#): > > …So while U.S. job creation lags, the President is making good on his Cairo pledge… I am heartened to hear that \*Human Events \*has adopted a position of such deep and abiding concern with the working man in America. > [@](#): > > …With his great knowledge of the Koran, and his willingness to lecture Americans and the world about religious tolerance, perhaps he can explain what the holy book means when it says, “Mohammed is Allah’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” … So I googled that quote, see what would happen. Page after page of hits, same quote, almost all of them of…similar opinion. It appears this quote is expected to do a lot of duty out there in Blogosvania, its getting trotted out every few minutes. Gotta creepy feeling there’s maybe one hundred thousand people in America who know exactly one verse from the Koran, but know it by heart and can recite it on a moments notice. And its that one. Don’t know quite what that means, but it can’t hardly be good. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/677 "2010-08-23T03:41:05Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > …look up the verses on the net for over 6 translations, they all say the same… Shitfire, man, the Old Testament is knee deep in blood: Midianites, Elamites, Stalagmites, you name it. So, we don’t trust Jews anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/678 "2010-08-23T03:55:31Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > This article, as with others, will not be open to discussion by me. The reason being the management of this board will refuse the reprinting of this article to make points, so there is nothing for me to talk about. > > Don, for heavens sake, read the registration agreement (under ‘FAQ’ on the menu bar at the top of the page). Here’s the relevant excerpt: > > [Quote=SDMB FAQ] > You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by the operator of the SDMB, except as permitted by the “fair use” provisions of the U.S. copyright laws (in general this means brief excerpts only). This has been a long-standing policy here. Posting full articles, or large portions thereof, violates the copyright of the article owner, and therefore raises potential legal issues. Whether you care to believe so or not, you are not being singled out on this issue. [/QUOTE] I did not say I being singled out, and I do not dispute your policy however you want to shape it for the occasion, but the facts still remain, I not going to discuss articles and reference that I post. There is no point in doing so as the article or information cannot be reprinted here. What is copyrighted? How short is short? This is for you to decide, not I, on this board. You can interpret and apply my references any way you want, or not even look at it, and even say I did not give reference when I have. Accordingly the reference is for your information only and not open for further comments by me. This should end this subject in its totality. You demand proof, proof, proof, but yet I cannot present the proof as to your policy. Ok, fine with me, this is your board not mine. If I do not like it I do not have to post here. And I am not going to argue your policy— did I make myself clear? Now I’m getting back on topic, there are other places for this conversation, and it is not on this thread. Don ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/679 "2010-08-23T04:13:41Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > > [@BrightNShiny](#): > > > > I can’t even keep up with the two-minutes of hate anymore. First it was blacks, then gays, then Mexicans, now Muslims. This is a completely artificial controversy generated for purely political reasons. > > > > On top of it, we’re supposed to be building shining beacons of pluralistic democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq (and what about those poor Iranians who are just itching to build their own beacon). If all Muslims are evil people who are just itching to get their Sharia on, then our entire strategy in the Middle East has been stupid from the very start. If, on the other hand, Afghanis, Iraqis, and Iranians are capable of supporting pluralistic democracy, then it should follow that at least some Muslims are capable of building such a place in lower Manhattan. > > As I said I happy that you are a god to know a good muslim from a bad one. But perhaps you should go by the Koran? > Here are 630 verses in the koran of doom, burning, beheading, and murders to non-believers. > > [Skeptic's Annotated Bible / Quran / Book of Mormon](http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/topics/doom.html) > > look up the verses on the net for over 6 translations, they all say the same. > Don **Don** , here’s a [similar, probably larger load of evil from the bible](http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html), found on the same website that you cite. Oh, and by the by, just in case you want to do the ‘it’s all in the old testament, the NT is all sweetness and light’ ploy, here’s John 15:6:\* If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. \* ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/680 "2010-08-23T04:13:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > …look up the verses on the net for over 6 translations, they all say the same… > > Shitfire, man, the Old Testament is knee deep in blood: Midianites, Elamites, Stalagmites, you name it. So, we don’t trust Jews anymore? Obviously you do not know your bible or the context that it was written in. Here is an article you might find helpful. [http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Bible-Quran-Violence.htm](http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Bible-Quran-Violence.htm) It is also a common tactic with Muslims to divert the conversation to Christians and how bad they were. Great, so by your argument and reasoning, Muslims are no better than murdering Christians. So you might as well have this reference also. [http://www.historyofjihad.com/](http://www.historyofjihad.com/) Don [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=35)