# Mosque to be built two blocks from Ground Zero **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432 "2010-05-14T14:36:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/781 "2010-08-23T22:06:07Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > > [@jsgoddess](#): > > > > I don’t think so. I think it’s a revelation of the deep-seated xenophobia, hatred, and religious intolerance of this country. > > I agree that xenophobia and hatred is being stirred up, but these people are completely incoherent. If they actually were worried about this Muslim threat, they would be furious about how intertwined our economy is with various Middle Eastern countries. It’s incoherent, yes, but it strikes me as very similar to the way parents will huddle in fear from “stranger danger” but then leave junior out of his car seat. We don’t assess risks properly. We aren’t that different from a flock of sheep someone panics and sends over a cliff. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/782 "2010-08-23T22:09:47Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > Let’s refer to Islamic literature that divides everything into the “House of Islam” and the “House of War”. What about the International House of Pancakes? Where does that fit in? Because I loves me some pancakes. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/783 "2010-08-23T22:12:07Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Hell, I bet if this were a Sunni Mosque, Fox would have avoided the story like the plague so as not to offend one of their biggest shareholders. Aren’t sufis a subset of Sunnis ? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/784 "2010-08-23T22:16:32Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > > [@BrightNShiny](#): > > > > Hell, I bet if this were a Sunni Mosque, Fox would have avoided the story like the plague so as not to offend one of their biggest shareholders. > > Aren’t sufis a subset of Sunnis ? I’ve always thought of them as a separate branch, but I don’t think it’s clear cut. If you’d like, you could substitute “Wahhabist” for “Sunni” in that post. Wahhabism and Sufiism are definitely distinct. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/785 "2010-08-23T22:20:05Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > We aren’t that different from a flock of sheep someone panics and sends over a cliff. I don’t think we’re in huge disagreement. I would argue that the “someone” causing the panic is doing so for purely artificial political reasons. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/786 "2010-08-23T22:36:06Z")
I suppose, perhaps, if a political party were looking to distract attention from their lockstep march to deny benefits to 9/11 workers, they might exploit widespread prejudice against a powerless and despised minority. If they were, like, scumbags. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/787 "2010-08-23T23:02:13Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > In the first place, no one is saying that mosques should not be allowed to build anywhere. That’s a strawman that you can stuff where the sun does not shine. > > Bullshit. People ARE saying they shouldn’t be built anywhere. Is Murfreesboro, TN too close to Ground Zero for a mosque? Apparently some people think so. > > You can’t have it both ways. You either hold all Muslims culpable for 9/11 or you don’t. If you admit that all Muslims are not responsible for 9/11, then you have NO excuse to be against a mosque anywhere. Oh, please. To say that Ground Zero does not hold some special status in America is ridiculous. Subsequently, a block or two from Ground Zero is not equivalent to a block or two from Murfreesboro Cinema. Especially where Islam is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/788 "2010-08-23T23:06:14Z")
Do you realize you sound exactly like **Der Trihs**? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/789 "2010-08-23T23:09:42Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, please. To say that Ground Zero does not hold some special status in America is ridiculous. > [@Bosstone](#): > > Do you realize you sound exactly like **Der Trihs**? Oh, please, to say that I talk anything like that is ridiculous. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/790 "2010-08-23T23:09:45Z")
Anduril: Since you are [del]pretending to be[/del] such an expert on Sharia and the Qur’an, I’ve a few questions for you: [ol][li]Which school of hadith is the predominant one in Islam?[/li][li]Which school of hadith did the September 11, 2001 terrorists follow?[/li][li]Which school of hadith does the Imam of the proposed Manhattan mosque-community center combo follow?[/li][li]Which verses in the Qur’an were abrogated and what was the historical rationale for such abrogation?[/li][li]Who are the “People of the Book” mentioned in the Qur’an?[/li]Are the “People of the Book” considered to be infidels?[/ol] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/791 "2010-08-23T23:14:08Z")
Its kinda like asking if the Mormons are Protestants. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/792 "2010-08-23T23:20:16Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I’ve always thought of them as a separate branch, but I don’t think it’s clear cut. If you’d like, you could substitute “Wahhabist” for “Sunni” in that post. Wahhabism and Sufiism are definitely distinct. Just so we’re clear, I wasn’t attacking what you said - I honestly didn’t/don’t know all that much about Sufism. Or Islam, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/793 "2010-08-23T23:22:51Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > > [@BrightNShiny](#): > > > > I’ve always thought of them as a separate branch, but I don’t think it’s clear cut. If you’d like, you could substitute “Wahhabist” for “Sunni” in that post. Wahhabism and Sufiism are definitely distinct. > > Just so we’re clear, I wasn’t attacking what you said - I honestly didn’t/don’t know all that much about Sufism. Or Islam, for that matter. I understand. I didn’t think you were attacking me. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/794 "2010-08-23T23:24:25Z")
> [@qpw3141](#): > > You would think that a lot of people have never heard of the [**Crusades**.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades) Or have seen Jesus Camp. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/795 "2010-08-23T23:25:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, please. To say that Ground Zero does not hold some special status in America is ridiculous. So because its special, you want to use it as the spot where you tell all muslim Americans that they can never be _real_ Americans, that their rights aren’t as important as your rights? As I said upthread, you want them not to exercise what is clearly their right, you should be prepared to compensate them somehow. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/796 "2010-08-23T23:41:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, please. To say that Ground Zero does not hold some special status in America is ridiculous. Subsequently, a block or two from Ground Zero is not equivalent to a block or two from Murfreesboro Cinema. Especially where Islam is concerned. Tell [this woman](http://sanseverything.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/kareem-rashad-sultan-khan-1987-2007/) that she isn’t good enough to have a house of worship near Ground Zero. The Republicans are turning Ground Zero into the Altar of Perpetual Victimhood and exploiting the victims for political expediency. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/797 "2010-08-23T23:47:49Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, please. To say that Ground Zero does not hold some special status in America is ridiculous. Subsequently, a block or two from Ground Zero is not equivalent to a block or two from Murfreesboro Cinema. Especially where Islam is concerned. This is a prime example of them profound ignorance that allows the fear mongers to succeed. No facts matter except that they are Muslim and that alone makes them guilty. If the families of Muslims that died at ground zero went right to the spot to utter Islamic prayers for their lost loved ones would they also be guilty of horrible insensitivity? They have to willingly surrender their own feelings and civil rights in the name of sensitivity to unjust and unfounded bitterness and guilt by no real association but a false completely fabricated one. The protests in TN, and CA, only demonstrate that ultimately it has nothing to do with location and the pretense of sensitivity toward a wounded America. It’s about whether we are willing to stand up for the principles we say we believe in or not? It’s about people allowing themselves to be emotionally manipulated and abandoning principles. It’s about supporting and encourging dispicable dishonest media rather than rejecting them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/798 "2010-08-24T00:05:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > …Tell this woman that she isn’t good enough to have a house of worship near Ground Zero… Nothing to it! Just set aside a special room in the new Freedom Towers for muslims like her, specially privileged “good” muslims. Give them exclusive access, maybe. Maybe a little badge or patch they could wear on thier outer clothing. A crescent, perhaps! Yellow, maybe. Yellow is nice. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/799 "2010-08-24T00:13:07Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > The protests in TN, and CA, only demonstrate that ultimately it has nothing to do with location and the pretense of sensitivity toward a wounded America. It’s about whether we are willing to stand up for the principles we say we believe in or not? It’s about people allowing themselves to be emotionally manipulated and abandoning principles. It’s about supporting and encourging dispicable dishonest media rather than rejecting them. Not simply abandoning principles, but turning them on their heads into \*everything \*America stood against in the past, at least according to America’s mythos. The media, the culture, the movies : all abominated Nazi Germany for having the gall to call every man, woman and child of a religion “non German”, sub human and evil, and for holding Jews responsible for all of Germany’s problems. America reviled the Red Soviets, for telling people what they were allowed to say, allowed to think, what god they weren’t allowed to pray. And, more recently, they decried backwards nations like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, for forcing everyone to espouse the beliefs and customs of the ruling class and punishing those who wouldn’t. But now, in the name of “freedom”, they turn around and do the exact same thing. In the name of freedom, they wish to restrict freedom and persecute minorities, all the while draping themselves in the American flag. It’s not ironic, it’s not amusing, it’s not shameful, it’s not hypocritical : it’s despicable. There’s no other word. You craven wankers make every symbol you purportedly revere vomit bile and spew ichor. 9/11 is turning into the Dolchto_ß_, and Mecca is fast turning into Zion. And truth be told it scares the pants out of me, because that shit is spreading from the US outwards. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/800 "2010-08-24T00:24:49Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Or have seen Jesus Camp. Weren’t those kids just adorable? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=41)