# Mosque to be built two blocks from Ground Zero **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432 "2010-05-14T14:36:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/801 "2010-08-24T00:46:04Z")
Until they come for you. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/802 "2010-08-24T00:55:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Until they come for you. “Bonk, bonk! On the head! Bonk, bonk!” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/803 "2010-08-24T01:07:12Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > That’s pretty cool. > > > > If it makes you feel any better, my wife and I had a secondary Hindu wedding ceremony and there were swastikas everywhere. > > no fooling? I didn’t realize it was a Hindu symbol until today. Has anyone ever commented on it? > > My Dad was a WWII anti Aircraft gunner, his boss years ago was an ex german WWII pilot. They actually joked about it. So why can’t we get along? Not really. It tends to be something you see a lot in mandirs (Hindu temples), and not something you see often in homes. None of my family’s stuff has swastikas on it, at least not that I’ve noticed. Plus, Indian fabrics- especially the sort you’d see in religious ceremonies- are usually heavily patterned, and you have to look closely to make out any specific details. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/804 "2010-08-24T01:11:17Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > > [@jsgoddess](#): > > > > We aren’t that different from a flock of sheep someone panics and sends over a cliff. > > I don’t think we’re in huge disagreement. I would argue that the “someone” causing the panic is doing so for purely artificial political reasons. I’d like to think it’s just a cynical ploy, since if it is, they’ll stop using it if it ever stops working. Big ifs, huh? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/805 "2010-08-24T01:34:36Z")
It could happen! The issue is a fake, the reaction is a reaction based on a fake, and it could turn on a dime. There’s a lot of people competing for the focus of the slimelight, who want to be the people having microphones thrust into their faces. And in situations like this, the race goes to the exrememost, whoever screams the loudest, who screams the most horriblist…gets the attention. Which opens the door too going too far, reaching that magical point when the American people look perplexed and say “WTF? What are these people saying such awful things about my cab driver/video store owner/Qucki Mart entrepreneur?” Snap! Backlash! And all those politicians pretend they never said any such thing, it was taken out of context, and it has nothing to do with the crucial, desperately important issue of funding YMCAs when they continue to be a recruiting ground for the homosexual agenda… ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/806 "2010-08-24T01:49:03Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > > [@elucidator](#): > > > > Until they come for you. > > “Bonk, bonk! On the head! Bonk, bonk!” Ha! I just got that reference, Excellent. That episode contained a classic bit of Shatner overacting. Maybe the best ever. A bruised and torn Kirk shouts “NO MORE BLAH BLAH BLAH!” ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/807 "2010-08-24T02:10:59Z")
[I like the video in this article.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/23/mosque-defenders-step-up-_n_690945.html) ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/808 "2010-08-24T05:24:50Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Comon man. Just find an analogy that works better if you can. I suggest you don’t start with the kinder gentler KKK. The analogy works. You claim that it doesn’t only because it shows how much of a knee-jerk liberal you are. You immediately dismissed the reaction of people as racist but you can’t honestly point out how different you’ll react in my hypothetical. Again, to be clear to those who insist this is about Muslim rights, I repeat. I support their right to place the mosque there. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/809 "2010-08-24T05:26:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > In the first place, no one is saying that mosques should not be allowed to build anywhere. That’s a strawman that you can stuff where the sun does not shine. > > Bullshit. People ARE saying they shouldn’t be built anywhere. Is Murfreesboro, TN too close to Ground Zero for a mosque? Apparently some people think so. > > You can’t have it both ways. You either hold all Muslims culpable for 9/11 or you don’t. If you admit that all Muslims are not responsible for 9/11, then you have NO excuse to be against a mosque anywhere. People are saying that building a mosque there is distasteful. They do not say that Muslims have NO right to build it there. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/810 "2010-08-24T05:28:19Z")
> [@blanx](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > That’s precisely my point. I support their right to build a mosque there. I just think they’re assholes. And I’m not bigoted for saying it. > > Actually, it seems to me that you are. You seem to believe, or at least have argued here, that Islam and its adherents are a monolithic force, and all share the same beliefs re > > That seems, per the definition of bigotry, to be bigotry. No. I argue that they have distasteful and violent beliefs that have found almost universal acceptance. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/811 "2010-08-24T05:35:11Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > That’s your contention. It is also the contention of some that even Sufis cannot separate themselves from the inherently violent and un-American beliefs that pervade Islam. Shariah? > > Well why weren’t they contending it when it was time to invade Iraq? When Dubya and Cheney were running around the country telling us that there were good Muslims in the Middle East who could build shiny, happy democracies, where were you and where were the rest of the people who are now popping up to tell us that all Muslims are bad? How come all these other people weren’t down at the White House protesting Dubya when he was telling us that there were good Muslims who could build a democracy? Why aren’t these people running around now demanding that we pull our troops out of the Middle East since there are no good Muslims anywhere who can build a democracy? Taqiyya. (I keed…I keed) ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/812 "2010-08-24T05:41:07Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > > [@BrightNShiny](#): > > > > Well why weren’t they contending it when it was time to invade Iraq? When Dubya and Cheney were running around the country telling us that there were good Muslims in the Middle East who could build shiny, happy democracies, where were you and where were the rest of the people who are now popping up to tell us that all Muslims are bad? How come all these other people weren’t down at the White House protesting Dubya when he was telling us that there were good Muslims who could build a democracy? Why aren’t these people running around now demanding that we pull our troops out of the Middle East since there are no good Muslims anywhere who can build a democracy? > > Taqiyya. (I keed…I keed) Bush and Cheney were practicing Taqiyya? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/813 "2010-08-24T06:19:36Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > The analogy works. You claim that it doesn’t only because it shows how much of a knee-jerk liberal you are. You immediately dismissed the reaction of people as racist but you can’t honestly point out how different you’ll react in my hypothetical. Again, to be clear to those who insist this is about Muslim rights, I repeat. I support their right to place the mosque there. several people have pointed out to you that it doesn’t work and I explained why. Your protest here indicates you have nothing else to offer. If knee jerk liberal means I examined the factual details of the issue and reached a conclusion rather than reacted strictly on emotion being manipulated by dishonest media outlets, I’ll take that label. And again, to be clear , it isn’t about _Muslim_ rights. It’s about equal constitutional rights for American citizens who happen to be Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/814 "2010-08-24T06:32:08Z")
A country that just killed over a hundred thousand people for nothing, maybe we shouldn’t be lecturing about violence. Not in very good taste. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/815 "2010-08-24T06:32:10Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > No. I argue that they have distasteful and violent beliefs that have found almost universal acceptance. So, almost all Muslims have distasteful and violent beliefs? Out of 1.5 billion people worldwide, almost all of them have violent beliefs? and that’s why you equated them with Nazi’s? Once again, that’s the definition of bigotry. also for future reference , bigotry and racism are not exactly the same thing. The prejudice surrounding this issue is based on religion not race. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/816 "2010-08-24T07:55:51Z")
Anduril–“Flame of the West” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/817 "2010-08-24T08:21:16Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > The analogy works. No, your analogy does not work. Your analogy lies around on the couch all day in its underwear, watching daytime TV, complaining about how it can’t work because it hurt its back in '95. Your analogy was painfully inept, inapt, incorrect, inappropriate, incompetent, and incredibly dumb. If I were to make an analogy of your analogy, I would compare it to the Hindenburg, but even that analogy fails, because the Hindenburg actually flew for a while. If the blueprints for the Hindenburg had burst into flames while still on the drafting table, tragically killing dozens of innocent German draughtsmen, then it would be a good analogy for how bad your analogy was. If there was any justice in the world, the Analogy Police would come to your home, put you in their Analogy Squadcar, and take you to Analogy Court, where you would be sentenced to Analogy Jail. This jail wouldn’t be an analogy of a jail. It would be a real jail, where they put people who make bad analogies, and you would have a life sentence. Because your analogy was so very, very bad. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/818 "2010-08-24T08:53:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > The analogy works. > > No, your analogy does not work. Your analogy lies around on the couch all day in its underwear, watching daytime TV, complaining about how it can’t work because it hurt its back in '95. Your analogy was painfully inept, inapt, incorrect, inappropriate, incompetent, and incredibly dumb. If I were to make an analogy of your analogy, I would compare it to the Hindenburg, but even that analogy fails, because the Hindenburg actually flew for a while. If the blueprints for the Hindenburg had burst into flames while still on the drafting table, tragically killing dozens of innocent German draughtsmen, then it would approach being an appropriate analogy for how bad your analogy was. If there was any justice in the world, the Analogy Police would come to your home, put you in their Analogy Squadcar, take you to Analogy Court, where you would be sentenced to Analogy Jail. This jail wouldn’t be an analogy of a jail. It would be a real jail, where they put people who make bad analogies, and you would have a life sentence. Because your analogy was so very, very bad. … god_damn_. I haven’t seen a burn this fierce since Besson’s Joan of Arc. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/819 "2010-08-24T08:54:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > The analogy works. > > No, your analogy does not work. Your analogy lies around on the couch all day in its underwear, watching daytime TV, complaining about how it can’t work because it hurt its back in '95. Your analogy was painfully inept, inapt, incorrect, inappropriate, incompetent, and incredibly dumb. If I were to make an analogy of your analogy, I would compare it to the Hindenburg, but even that analogy fails, because the Hindenburg actually flew for a while. If the blueprints for the Hindenburg had burst into flames while still on the drafting table, tragically killing dozens of innocent German draughtsmen, then it would be a good analogy for how bad your analogy was. If there was any justice in the world, the Analogy Police would come to your home, put you in their Analogy Squadcar, take you to Analogy Court, where you would be sentenced to Analogy Jail. This jail wouldn’t be an analogy of a jail. It would be a real jail, where they put people who make bad analogies, and you would have a life sentence. Because your analogy was so very, very bad. LOL The next time I post something stupid, please can you be the one who points it out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/820 "2010-08-24T12:27:29Z")
So, **Anduril** , if you expect people to support your position that Muslims be denied their Constitutional rights based on the simple fact they’re Muslims, perhaps you should prove to us that you really do understand the faith you’re condeming? I seem to recall posting a helpful list of questions upthread. Care to answer them or do you just plain not care about this site’s stated purpose? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=42)