# Mosque to be built two blocks from Ground Zero **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432 "2010-05-14T14:36:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/821 "2010-08-24T12:34:14Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > also for future reference , bigotry and racism are not exactly the same thing. The prejudice surrounding this issue is based on religion not race. I’d be willing to bet that if every Muslim on Earth were white, then there wouldn’t be that much prejudice against the faith. ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/822 "2010-08-24T12:56:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > The analogy works. > > No, your analogy does not work. Your analogy lies around on the couch all day in its underwear, watching daytime TV, complaining about how it can’t work because it hurt its back in '95. Your analogy was painfully inept, inapt, incorrect, inappropriate, incompetent, and incredibly dumb. If I were to make an analogy of your analogy, I would compare it to the Hindenburg, but even that analogy fails, because the Hindenburg actually flew for a while. If the blueprints for the Hindenburg had burst into flames while still on the drafting table, tragically killing dozens of innocent German draughtsmen, then it would be a good analogy for how bad your analogy was. If there was any justice in the world, the Analogy Police would come to your home, put you in their Analogy Squadcar, and take you to Analogy Court, where you would be sentenced to Analogy Jail. This jail wouldn’t be an analogy of a jail. It would be a real jail, where they put people who make bad analogies, and you would have a life sentence. Because your analogy was so very, very bad. _bows_ My liege. Damn. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/823 "2010-08-24T13:01:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > The analogy works. > > No, your analogy does not work. Your analogy lies around on the couch all day in its underwear, watching daytime TV, complaining about how it can’t work because it hurt its back in '95. Your analogy was painfully inept, inapt, incorrect, inappropriate, incompetent, and incredibly dumb. If I were to make an analogy of your analogy, I would compare it to the Hindenburg, but even that analogy fails, because the Hindenburg actually flew for a while. If the blueprints for the Hindenburg had burst into flames while still on the drafting table, tragically killing dozens of innocent German draughtsmen, then it would be a good analogy for how bad your analogy was. If there was any justice in the world, the Analogy Police would come to your home, put you in their Analogy Squadcar, and take you to Analogy Court, where you would be sentenced to Analogy Jail. This jail wouldn’t be an analogy of a jail. It would be a real jail, where they put people who make bad analogies, and you would have a life sentence. Because your analogy was so very, very bad. Love it, but my favorite part was the word “draughtsmen” instead of the more modern “draftsman”. Were you trying to be archaic or is draughtsmen indeed what you would generally use? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/824 "2010-08-24T13:19:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > The analogy works. > > No, your analogy does not work. Your analogy lies around on the couch all day in its underwear, watching daytime TV, complaining about how it can’t work because it hurt its back in '95. Your analogy was painfully inept, inapt, incorrect, inappropriate, incompetent, and incredibly dumb. If I were to make an analogy of your analogy, I would compare it to the Hindenburg, but even that analogy fails, because the Hindenburg actually flew for a while. If the blueprints for the Hindenburg had burst into flames while still on the drafting table, tragically killing dozens of innocent German draughtsmen, then it would be a good analogy for how bad your analogy was. If there was any justice in the world, the Analogy Police would come to your home, put you in their Analogy Squadcar, and take you to Analogy Court, where you would be sentenced to Analogy Jail. This jail wouldn’t be an analogy of a jail. It would be a real jail, where they put people who make bad analogies, and you would have a life sentence. Because your analogy was so very, very bad. A thing of beauty , to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/825 "2010-08-24T13:24:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > The analogy works. > > No, your analogy does not work. Your analogy lies around on the couch all day in its underwear, watching daytime TV, complaining about how it can’t work because it hurt its back in '95. Your analogy was painfully inept, inapt, incorrect, inappropriate, incompetent, and incredibly dumb. If I were to make an analogy of your analogy, I would compare it to the Hindenburg, but even that analogy fails, because the Hindenburg actually flew for a while. If the blueprints for the Hindenburg had burst into flames while still on the drafting table, tragically killing dozens of innocent German draughtsmen, then it would be a good analogy for how bad your analogy was. If there was any justice in the world, the Analogy Police would come to your home, put you in their Analogy Squadcar, and take you to Analogy Court, where you would be sentenced to Analogy Jail. This jail wouldn’t be an analogy of a jail. It would be a real jail, where they put people who make bad analogies, and you would have a life sentence. Because your analogy was so very, very bad. But other than that, it was great! ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/826 "2010-08-24T13:26:37Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > also for future reference , bigotry and racism are not exactly the same thing. The prejudice surrounding this issue is based on religion not race. > > I’d be willing to bet that if every Muslim on Earth were white, then there wouldn’t be that much prejudice against the faith. you’re probably right. Are we more forgiving when we’re [attacked by people who look just like us?](http://www.traces.org/germaninternees.html) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/827 "2010-08-24T13:32:35Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@Monty](#): > > > > I’d be willing to bet that if every Muslim on Earth were white, then there wouldn’t be that much prejudice against the faith. > > you’re probably right. Are we more forgiving when we’re [attacked by people who look just like us?](http://www.traces.org/germaninternees.html) Like I said above, or hell maybe it was a different thread, when it’s a religion or a race we’re more familiar with, we can see the nuances. Oh, the Catholics are bombing people, but you see that’s because of X and Y and a few bad apples and Catholics versus Protestants and you can’t judge everyone by the actions of a few and… Oh, the Muslims are bombing people, because the religion is evil and backwards and corrupt and if they mostly bomb other Muslims well that just means that they are savages and a monolithic group and they should be driven out. Oh, I got mugged by a white guy! He sucks and I hope he ends up in jail. Oh, I got mugged by a black guy. Just goes to show that black people can’t be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/828 "2010-08-24T15:59:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > The analogy works. > > No, your analogy does not work. Your analogy lies around on the couch all day in its underwear, watching daytime TV, complaining about how it can’t work because it hurt its back in '95. Your analogy was painfully inept, inapt, incorrect, inappropriate, incompetent, and incredibly dumb. If I were to make an analogy of your analogy, I would compare it to the Hindenburg, but even that analogy fails, because the Hindenburg actually flew for a while. If the blueprints for the Hindenburg had burst into flames while still on the drafting table, tragically killing dozens of innocent German draughtsmen, then it would be a good analogy for how bad your analogy was. If there was any justice in the world, the Analogy Police would come to your home, put you in their Analogy Squadcar, and take you to Analogy Court, where you would be sentenced to Analogy Jail. This jail wouldn’t be an analogy of a jail. It would be a real jail, where they put people who make bad analogies, and you would have a life sentence. Because your analogy was so very, very bad. Too long for a siggy, damn it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/829 "2010-08-24T16:06:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > No, your analogy does not work. Your analogy lies around on the couch all day in its underwear, watching daytime TV, complaining about how it can’t work because it hurt its back in '95. Your analogy was painfully inept, inapt, incorrect, inappropriate, incompetent, and incredibly dumb. If I were to make an analogy of your analogy, I would compare it to the Hindenburg, but even that analogy fails, because the Hindenburg actually flew for a while. If the blueprints for the Hindenburg had burst into flames while still on the drafting table, tragically killing dozens of innocent German draughtsmen, then it would be a good analogy for how bad your analogy was. If there was any justice in the world, the Analogy Police would come to your home, put you in their Analogy Squadcar, and take you to Analogy Court, where you would be sentenced to Analogy Jail. This jail wouldn’t be an analogy of a jail. It would be a real jail, where they put people who make bad analogies, and you would have a life sentence. Because your analogy was so very, very bad. > > Too long for a siggy, damn it. You could use this as a sig: [boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12835203&postcount=817](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12835203&postcount=817) ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/830 "2010-08-24T17:55:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > The analogy works. > > No, your analogy does not work. Your analogy lies around on the couch all day in its underwear, watching daytime TV, complaining about how it can’t work because it hurt its back in '95. Your analogy was painfully inept, inapt, incorrect, inappropriate, incompetent, and incredibly dumb. If I were to make an analogy of your analogy, I would compare it to the Hindenburg, but even that analogy fails, because the Hindenburg actually flew for a while. If the blueprints for the Hindenburg had burst into flames while still on the drafting table, tragically killing dozens of innocent German draughtsmen, then it would be a good analogy for how bad your analogy was. If there was any justice in the world, the Analogy Police would come to your home, put you in their Analogy Squadcar, and take you to Analogy Court, where you would be sentenced to Analogy Jail. This jail wouldn’t be an analogy of a jail. It would be a real jail, where they put people who make bad analogies, and you would have a life sentence. Because your analogy was so very, very bad. Meh. This is what passes for a cogent argument these days? As a rant, I’d give it a 10 but that’s all it is… a rant. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/831 "2010-08-24T17:58:57Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > also for future reference , bigotry and racism are not exactly the same thing. The prejudice surrounding this issue is based on religion not race. > > I’d be willing to bet that if every Muslim on Earth were white, then there wouldn’t be that much prejudice against the faith. I would think so. Good thing I’m not white. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/832 "2010-08-24T18:06:56Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > Meh. This is what passes for a cogent argument these days? As a rant, I’d give it a 10 but that’s all it is… a rant. A rant? You’ve got to be kidding. That was a work of art! Generally, you really do seem to have very little understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/833 "2010-08-24T18:11:45Z")
> [@qpw3141](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > Meh. This is what passes for a cogent argument these days? As a rant, I’d give it a 10 but that’s all it is… a rant. > > A rant? > > You’ve got to be kidding. That was a work of art! > > Generally, you really do seem to have very little understanding. A rant, an ad hominem… what’s next :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/834 "2010-08-24T18:16:11Z")
Well we could call you a Nazi I suppose, but that would be stupid. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/835 "2010-08-24T18:24:07Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > A rant, an ad hominem… what’s next :rolleyes: It’s only really an ad hominem if it’s a constituent part of an argument or debate. I was just making a general observation. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/836 "2010-08-24T18:32:58Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > A rant, an ad hominem… what’s next :rolleyes: Probably generalizing about an entire religion based on the idiocies of a small group of the fundamentalist wing of one of the smaller sects of said religion. Everyone else is doing it, why can’t we? Also, you’ve pretty much shown that you don’t care much for analogies that others offer, so why get so bent out of shape when your (worse) analogy is shredded and pooh-poohed? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/837 "2010-08-24T19:05:31Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@Monty](#): > > > > I’d be willing to bet that if every Muslim on Earth were white, then there wouldn’t be that much prejudice against the faith. > > you’re probably right. Are we more forgiving when we’re [attacked by people who look just like us?](http://www.traces.org/germaninternees.html) Yes. As described in your link, “hundreds” of German-Americans were interned, out of the largest ethnic group in the U.S. Compare this with 110,000 Japanese and Japanese-Americans. Yeah, I think being white helped a lot. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/838 "2010-08-24T19:21:50Z")
First, I’m too lazy to read all the pages of this thread so I apologize if they have already been answered but I have a few questions: 1. Exactly were does the boundry between 9/11 sacred ground and the rest of NYC run? 2. What is allowed to be inside that boundary? 3. Is it true that there are strip clubs, bars and plastic surgeons already on that sacred ground? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/839 "2010-08-24T19:35:52Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > Meh. This is what passes for a cogent argument these days? As a rant, I’d give it a 10 but that’s all it is… a rant. I don’t think it was intended as a cogent argument since the impression was you didn’t really accept those. Your response to multiple crticism’s of why the Nazi analogy fails was this > [@](#): > > The analogy works. You claim that it doesn’t only because it shows how much of a knee-jerk liberal you are. even though I explained why it didn’t work. This response is the equivilent of “Is So” and doesn’t give you much credibility when it comes to cogent arguments. then you added > [@](#): > > You immediately dismissed the reaction of people as racist but you can’t honestly point out how different you’ll react in my hypothetical No I didn’t immedialtely dismiss anything. My posts in this thread and the other we were in shows I did my research and looked at the facts concerning the issue. There is no honest reaction to your hypothetical because you are trying to invent good Nazis. > [@](#): > > But this hypothetical Nazi party claims to do the same. They will build bridges between Nazism and Judaism in order to avoid future violence. while simultaneously using their indelible stamp of evil incarnate. > [@](#): > > I used the Nazi party as a analogy because I am certain that most of us are in agreement that both the Nazi party and Islam have distasteful beliefs. and here you you make the error of inferring that all Muslims hold the same distasteful beliefs. It’s wrong and if you don’t know better by now and include it in your considerations it’s a flat denial of reality and we’re back to the definition of bigotry again. I’ll even placate you somewhat. If Nazi’s had been around as a group for hundreds of years and made many positive contributions to mankind, and then one small group of them committed horrible atrocities, would it be insensitive for moderate Nazi’s who had no connection what to the radical few, to build a community center dedicated to peace and and healing cultural differences , as well as more mundane positive advantages for the community, two blocks from the holocaust museum in DC.? Answer No it would not be, and I’d wager that the Jewish Community as a whole would be reasonable enough to understand that. But that’s not really what you want is it? You want the horrors associated with the Nazi’s to be the most important thing, just as you seem to want all Muslims to be somehow linked to the actions of a few. Your problemn is the more we make the analogy actually fit the details of the issue the more obvious it becomes that you’re wrong. You can’t make any reasonable analogy work, which is pribably why you avoided any I offered and avoided my questions. On a news site someone commented that’s it’s not about rights or the Constitution , it’s about basic fairness and decency to the familes of 9/11 victims. No sir, there is no basic fairness and decency invlovled in objecting to this building. Fairness and decency demands just them opposite. It’s a shame so many people will allow themsleves to be manipulated into believeing otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432/840 "2010-08-24T19:37:16Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > you’re probably right. Are we more forgiving when we’re [attacked by people who look just like us?](http://www.traces.org/germaninternees.html) > > Yes. As described in your link, “hundreds” of German-Americans were interned, out of the largest ethnic group in the U.S. Compare this with 110,000 Japanese and Japanese-Americans. Yeah, I think being white helped a lot. good point. That’s why I framed it as a question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mosque-to-be-built-two-blocks-from-ground-zero/539432.md?page=43)