'Ground Zero Mosque' Imam Helped FBI With Counterterrorism Efforts | HuffPost Latest News As usual the tighty righties are making crap up about the Imam in the ground 2 cultural building. He has been assisting the government in trying to make peace .
You can’t be serious. Brown’s original argument was that the imam was the problem. Lemon cut him off and asked him if Brown would support the mosque if the imam was out of the picture. Brown’s response: “Well…well…, probably not!” translation: my original argument was bullshit; sorry for wasting the last 2 minutes.
His real argument: “A piece of the landing gear actually landed on this building, so it’s sacred to me.”
His closing argument: “A Christian lady that opposed the mosque, and publicly fought the opening of the mosque, had a heart attack after the hearing. Where is the sensitivity from moslem world?” :rolleyes:
I do agree that he was clam and dignified, but that is totally irrelevant.
OK. Anybody who disagrees with you is not a thinking person. If a Muslim disagrees with you are they not thinking to your standards? Farzana Hassan** lives in Toronto and is an astonishingly brave woman who has written three books since 9/11, putting Islam into perspective. She, along with Tarek Fatah, founder of the Canadian Muslim Congress (MCC), are among the few Muslims who speak out loudly and clearly against extremism.To most, it is an inappropriate site for a mosque, and if built will send the wrong message to the world. Not a message of tolerance and reconciliation, but one of Islamic triumph for extremists.**
Moving up a notch, anybody who disagrees with you is insane. Just because a bridge building Sufi Imam doesn’t want to risk categorizing Hamas as a terrorist organization and feels the US was an accessory to the crime of 9/11 isn’t a reason people in NY should ask questions.
So now the vitriol is up to “willful ignorance of the Muslim world”. Nobody else’s opinion matters in this bridge building project of religious harmony? Sufi mysticist Suleiman Schwartz, **who said that a building built by Rauf barely two blocks from ground zero, is inconsistent with Sufi philosophy of simplicity of faith and sensitivity towards others.
**
Hamas co-founder Mahmoud al-Zahar’s support of the mosque gives credence to the idea that it will become a symbol of victory for Jihadists. This idea is supported by Dr. Wafa Sultan who said: It is crucial to study the supremacist ideology of Islam and to recognize, for example, that the building of a mosque especially at Ground Zero is viewed by Muslims as a decisive victory over the infidels in Islam’s march to establish its ultimate goal: the submission of all others to Islam and to Sharia Law.
That begs the question, what would a highly educated medical doctor raised as a Muslim in Syria know about the Muslim world.
Nah. I exaggerated in response to your over-the-top claims. People can reasonably differ on these issues, but I suspect that most of the Muslims who express caution are more concerned with the bad publicity than a genuine feeling that there was anything wrong with the plan–and the bad publicity originated with ignorant bigots.
Beyond that, there is the point that the opponents seem to rigorously avoid actually bothering to discover the facts regarding the proposed community center. This whole “at Ground Zero” bullshit is just that, bullshit. Hassan’s false claim that the plan was for an “Islamic Centre which will cater to Muslims of all persuasions” is a direct contradiction of the stated purpose of the center to be a community center for all people of any religion.
I also note that your article is mostly typical Worthington anti-Muslim polemic. Worthington makes a point of saying that “She [Hassan] says the ‘traditional response’ from the U.S. Muslim community has been ‘belligerence and arrogance.’” which is clearly not an accurate representation of Imam Rauf in any way. So we have a someone, living in another country, making snide comments about American people that are clearly not pertinent to this discussion, and I am supposed to find that to be a persuasive argument against a community center opposed by haters. And since she is joining in the same false claims that the proposed center is at “Ground Zero” while absurdly implying that a group that is of an opposing sect to Wahabbism is probably accepting funds from Wahabbists, she pretty much declares her own ignorance and unfitness to comment on the issue. Either Hassan or Worthington are being deliberately deceitful in the claim that Wahabbists use “orthodox” mosques as conduits for money; Wahabbists DO use “fundamentalist” mosques as financial conduits, (“orthodox” has rather little meaning in Islam without further qualifying which branch of Islam one is declaring orthodox), but Imam Rauf cannot be considered “fundamentalist” by anyone who is not outright lying. When she gets basic facts wrong, I see no reason to consider her opinions–based on errors–to be worth much.
I do not find it persuasive.
Similarly, I have no problem with people asking questions, but when the questions are all based on quotes taken out of context, I suspect that such “questions” are merely disingenuous rhetorical devices intended to spread lies while hiding behind plausible deniability.
Quoting support by a member of Hamas for the building is pretty much the same sort of rhetoric that the John Birch Society used to drag up, finding some quote from a Communist official supporting fluoridation or universal education to prove that such things were communist plots.
On re-reading the actual exchange, I am going to have to point out that you have pulled a bait and switch. My specific comment was never that anyone who disagreed with me was unthinking, it was to point out that only an unthinking person would disagree with Imam Rauf’s specific comments on the WTC/Pentagon attacks and the U.S. policies being an accessory to the event. Given that the U.S. has been meddling in Muslim nations, (often to the detriment of Islam), for decades, supporting dictators who have suppressed Islam in Iran, Indonesia, the Philipines, and other locations, supported corrupt regimes in Muslim nations, such as Saudi Arabia, and provided arms and training to people such as Osama bin Laden to use them to fight the Soviets in a proxy war, then wandered off and abandoned Afghanistan once the Soviets were expelled, it really takes an unthinking person to believe that we had no complicity in the events that led to the attacks. And given that Rauf clearly stated that the U.S. did not deserve to be attacked, regardless of being “accessory” to the events, the outrage over his mild comments is silly.
I wonder if that place sells vitamins…
[quote=“tomndebb, post:424, topic:539432”]
Hamas was quoted in support of the idea that the mosque will be looked upon as an Islamic monument to 9/11 which I further supported with a quote from a Doctor who was raised in the Middle East.
The statements made by the Imam were not taken out of context. That you agree with his assessment that the US should acknowledge interfering with Islam means you place religion above politics as it applies to US policy. Nothing you’ve mentioned suggests that the United States based it’s foreign policy on religion.
The thing that would be hilarious if it weren’t so serious is that those who oppose the building of the mosque are so obviously helping the terrorists win.
What was the long game to the 9/11’ers? Was their thinking that causing some random deaths was going to cause the Western World to throw its hands up and say “OK Islam you win, we bow to your Jihad and will convert immediately?”
Hell no, even they weren’t that stupid. Well, their handlers weren’t (and aren’t). Nope, their long game was to polarise. Get the whole us and them thing going. Nothing brings a culture or religion together as well as having a good strong enemy to be scared of and to hate.
What really, really pisses off extremists and particularly religious extremists, is when the average Joe (OK, Jamal) of their culture or religion finds out that people of a rival religion or culture are actually pretty reasonable and tolerant.
Right now the 9/11 hijackers are watching cynical politicians use this mosque issue to drive a great big wedge between moderate US moslems and the rest of the country, and they are watching the whole story being picked up and replayed in media throughout the Islam world, and they are cheering and ululating fit to wake the dead.
Congratulations to those opposing the mosque, you are helping to advance the agenda the 9/11 hijackers died for. Well done.
You really do work hard to misinterpret other people’s words.
The Imam said that the US has done things in the past that have pissed off Muslims. Do you deny that this is true?
Meh, everybody’s pissed off a Muslim at one time or another. Muslims even get pissed off by other Muslims.
Nope.
Just because you have one major argument against something does not mean that if that is taken care of you automatically change your stance.
I don’t agree with either of his arguments but there’s nothing wrong with having mnore than one reason to oppose something.
I suspect he suffered a lot more than that.
Again, I don’t agree with his argument but all he was saying was that the results of 9-11 are, to this day, so stressful that it can cause extreme physical distress in people and others should have some sensitivity to that distress.
I certainly don’t agree that that sensitivity should extend to banning the Mosque but he’s allowed to make his case and he made it without being gratuitously offensive to anyone.
Not to your claim that he was babbling.
The hijackers were pissed off and killed < 3,000.
GWB got pissed off and killed > 100,000.
I’m going to have to go with “unthinking” (as a sort of knee-jerk reaction) with this comment. You are right that nothing I have mentioned suggests that the U.S. based its foreign policy on religion; I have never even implied that it should or should not. You are introducing a straw man. The support of the Shah, Suharto, Marcos, the Saud family and others were bad political decisions that had the additional effect of supporting people who actively oppressed or tolerated oppression of various Muslim groups.
Wafa Sultan is not a reliable voice regarding Islam. She is simply an apostate that has made it her mission to denigrate her birth religion. She might have some cause for her feelings, (although she appears to have invented several of her claims), but she has demonstrated a practice of making false or exaggerated claims on enough occasions that her views are more than suspect. The very fact that she is trying to claim some sort of “stealth” plan among the extremists is a sure sign that she is making it up. There has not been any “stealth” plan–they are quite open about everything that they wish to accomplish.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/ Imam Rauf is not a radical at all. If you read his statements over the years , you find he is a voice of reason and peace. Fox news is demonizing him to buttress a terrible argument that is not based in truth but political advantage.
Any construction would help NYC. Those wishing to prevent it for political reasons should be ashamed. They are actually giving the radicals more ammo. The idea that we are at war against the Muslim religion is a lie unless you turn on Fox. That is what the world gets to see and hear. That is what the real radical Muslims get to for proof that we are anti-Muslim and at war against their religion. They are creating what they fear. But if they get votes for the conservatives who use these lies, Fox will be pleased.
I don’t think I agree with this. But in the overall scheme of this issue I don’t think it’s important.
I don’t think he was babbling, but he didn’t make much sense.
I find myself annoyed that the Ground Zero Mosque is getting so much attention from the newsies. What a boring topic. I could care less if the mosque gets built there or not. It seems an incredibly petty topic to focus our attention on. What a stupid debate.
Don’t worry. Next week we can talk about the Cathedral of the Holy Cross Daycare and how insensitive it was to put it right next to all those priests.
That is great! Every website should have one!