So the eff what. If we start judging everyone’s actions by how ignorant people could misjudge them, nothing will ever happen. This is America (I mean, I don’t live in America, although we have the same basic freedoms here in Canada). Live like Americans, not how someone in the Middle East or wherever might judge you.
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0821/pentagon-muslims-pray-day-protests/ Only a few yards from where the plane hit the pentagon, Muslims pray every day. Why don’t you go protest that too. Seems they made peace quite easily.
I would imagine they don’t want a monument to terrorists tied to an American Mosque.
Have we succumb to the manipulation of fear mongers with airport security systems? If all the violence associated with radical Islam was external then the weight of distrust would be minimized. the connection to terrorism is a burden carried by American Muslims because we were attacked from within. the WTC bombing, 9/11, the Ft Hood Shootings and various attacks that were thwarted were all internal events separate from the USS Cole bombing and various overseas attacks.
Fear and resentment are 2 different emotions and they don’t travel hand in hand. It is logical to fear terrorists those who hide in plain sight within our borders. That does not mean Muslims are resented.
That is a military chapel inside the pentagon and not a privately funded structure deliberately constructed near the pentagon.
There was no sensitivity involved until it was fabricated by dishonest bigots and then used by irrresponsible media. Park 51 was going forward for months with no problem and the appraoval of community leaders who actually knew what the hell was going on. Now 100s of people who really have no idea about the factual details of this situation have an opinion about what’s sensitive.
There is no reason for anyone but the extremely small minded and ignorant to view this as a monument to terrorism. Considering the fact that American Muslims also died on 9/11 what it can be is as a multicultural ommunity center open to the public, is a monument of our desire and commitment to promote unity and tolerance ahead of bigitry. Our desire and commitment to live at peace with dignity and respect for other people and cultures.
About 26 miles from here a similar thing happened in Musrfreesboro TN when the local Muslims who had been worshipping there for years decided to expand and build a new Mosque. They were surprised by the anti Muslim backlash , protests and vandalism, while the new Bapatist church went up right next door to their property without a complaint. It’s not about sensitiveity. It’s about fear mongers doing thier thing to spread their poisen and people cooperating with them rather than shutting them down.
That’s not a point of pride for Americans.
LOL! If the only defense we have against terrorist acts is zoning laws, then our law enforcement needs some serious retraining.
I can’t imagine how the location of the community center could matter at all, unless you are thinking it will be easier for them to dig under the new WTC.
2 blocks away is the equivalent of several miles in non city areas. Unless they create a really distinctive architecture or are constantly having cultural festivals on the sidewalk, I doubt anyone would even notice it or associate it as being near the WTC, were it not for the articles about it.
Personally I don’t see any reason not to have a prayer space in the new WTC tower itself as a convenience to people who work there. It’s just a convenience, similar to the small chapel, gift shop, and cafe of any hospital…
Why exactly do those details make a difference? Muslims worship daily mere steps from a terrorist attack. They are , Muslims, worhiping Allah, the same as the terrorists. Why isn’t their worship insnsitive to those who lost their lives at the pentagon?
What we’re talking about in NYC is a community center open to the public with a basketball court, a swimming pool, a cullinary school, classrooms, and an area for worship, two blocks {not steps} away from an attack that also killed American Muslims . We’re talking about a spot that cannot be seen from ground zero. We’re talking about a building probably will look more like the buildings around it than it does the Taj Mahal. Are we as Americans so dam craven, so full of anger and resentment that just knowing it’s built by Muslims and Msulims are in there worshipping Allah that we can’t stand it. Is that the kind of crap we want to promote and embrace as a nation?
We have a growing Muslim population in this country. Is any Mosque on American soil a potential victory for Muslims who hate America? Do we rise to conquer ignorance and orrational fear or do we gave in to it?
Now who is the mind reader?
I can’t see how the opinion of a Muslims from the middle east are dishonest. I’d say they were about as honest as they come when discussing the idea that the building will become a victory monument.
Yes, spray painting a sign representing a religious institution isn’t a high point of pride for Americans. A rather small indication of intolerance toward a group that is suppose to be hated. There were no riots, and nobody was hurt. Just a sad example of religious intolerance by one person. You can’t blame all Americans for that. Sound familiar?
The Muslim’s who I quoted. But hey, maybe American Muslims do want a monument to terrorists.
It’s actually a logical point. If it is seen as a “victory monument”, it will be because of the apparent outcry against it. I’d say the reaction of it being an affront is what is making it seem like a victory, if indeed it is seen such. So cosmosdan’s point could well be accurate.
As the above post points out: If the centre is seen as some sort of victory statement that perception will be entirely down to the efforts of the bigots and the ranters, wailer, and ravers.
Good job, guys.
It was never that and needn’t be that now. There’s no more reason for this building to be a terrorist monument than any other NYC Mosque that have been there for years. If we cave in to this irrational bullshit we begin to create and worship a monument to fear and bigotry.
No and that’s not a valid comparison.
Yes , it’s a new era and a different sort of war. It tests our resolve on the principles of the constitution we claim to embrace. It won’t be easy to walk the line of wisely defending ourselves while supporting civil rights. We will need the help and patient understanding of American Muslims. Mistakes will be made. It will take effort to let good judgement, our principles, and reason rule our emotions. In this case the opposite is happening. This was started by anti Muslim sentiment , exploited by irresponsible media to play on emotions rather than good judgement, our principles, and reason. If we cave in to that rather than pull our selves out of it, we are the lesser for it.
They may not always travel together but often do. It is logical to be aware of what kind of war we’re in and take appropriate steps to protect ourselves. It is not logical to be fearful and suspicious at every turn and allow that to rule our better judgement.
Want examples
McCarthyism
The Salem Witch Hunts
The Internment of Japanese Americans.
Are those moments we point to proudly?
Here even more is at risk because as we cave in to fear mongers and allow ourselves to be manipulated and abandon our principles we give rise to more anger and resentment from more than a billion Muslims and increase our chances violence rather than decrease them. We need to look ahead to future generations to stop the violence by cultivating a just realtionship with the next generations of Muslims. We won’t doing that by denying them equal rights and viewing them with suspicion and irrational resentment.
Without one single shred of evidence to the contrary the NYC community center should be accepted for exactly what it was intended to be. A multicultural community center open to the public. It has the potential to become a place where our most multicultural city helps lead the way to a new level of understanding and support between different beliefs and cultures. Or it can be another stain marking our fear and bigotry.
I’m suspicious of the background knowledge base, and therefore of the conclusions he draws from it, of a person who maintains that “there are no practicing Muslims in the area who need a place to worship, because it is a commercial district…”. I thought the whole idea was to expand an existing facility, to provide space for worship and a plethora of other services that could not be properly served by the existing facility or by the mosque located two blocks farther away.
Other than the generic “being a Muslim”, and being a TV executive, what credentials does this individual bring to the table that we should give his statements any great weight? He doesn’t seem to know much about the Muslim demographics of Manhattan. Nor have I seen anything from Obama that anyone could construe as “championing construction of the proposed mosque” (more’s the pity). I find this person’s statements to be rather less than persuasive.
It would be seen as a terrorist monument by MAGIVER and a few other haters . For most of us it is a community building . It is a place of worship protected by American laws and the constitution. It is just a building. It included a plaque honoring 911. It is sad when people are blinded by hate.
I didn’t say they were dishonest. The dishonesty is coming from other Americans who are willing to distort the facts and fan the fires of hatred and suspicion.
Out of over a billion Muslims a few hold a opinion about a neighborhood in a country they don’t live in. I don’t care if it’s honest opinion or not. It simply isn’t relevant. Those of us who have the ability to sift through the bullshit and realize it’s a community center rather than just a Mosque, and it’s not on ground zero, and it’s not even visable from ground zero out to have more sense.
Once again, I fail to see how such a community center will be any more of a monument to terrorism than any other Mosque in NYC or the how it’s presence there is less sensitive than the Muslims who worship at the Pentagon. It’s all hyped up manufactured emtional crap appealing to the lowest part of ourrselves.
Yes it does sound familiar. It sounds a lot like the religious intolence you’re pedaling now while trying to cloak it with something else. It’s no disquise at all.
I don’t blame all Americans. I encourage Americans to rise above it and let their principles and reason help them make sound judgements. I urge them to resist fear and religious intolerence. I urge them to reject the work of fear mongers and dishonest self serving media.
It was a community center planned for months and approved of by all the relevant people of the local community. They got a great buy on a building that has been abandoned for years. It’s a completely legit private business transaction that never caused a stir and was even discussed and approved of on Fox.
Eventually an anti Muslim group that specializes in religious intolerance voiced their outrage on their blog and other conservative loggers decided to pick up the story of the Ground Zero Mosque {which in itself is a false label} and then it progressed to TV. False stories about the nature of the building and about Imam Rauf were spreading like wildfire and religious intolerance aimed at Muslims began to rise as idiots like Gingrich exploited the issue for their own ends.
When you have jackasses on Fox making bogus connections to terrorism and using terms like a terrorist center it’s just fucking shameful. It’s a false controversy created and fanned by dishonest Americans serving their own agenda while purposely prodding their fellow citizens to react emotionally on false information and slanted innuendo.
It will only be a victory monument to those who give themselves over to being manipulated by dishonest and dispicable assholes.
Comon man, think. What the hell makes you think this center is any more likley to harbor the source of a terrorist attack than any other location?
Essentially the thing is that in this sort of case the only way of measuring victory is by how defeated and pissed off your opposition look. That there are places for Muslims to worship by the Pentagon or wherever aren’t a sign of victory because, in America, they aren’t a sign of defeat. They’re just business as usual. It is the insistence that this building is a defeat that could allow others to turn it into a victory.
I live in a community with thousands of Arabs, Dearborn, Michigan. I felt no special fears when the towers went down. The people of Dearborn were as shocked and horrified as anyone else. I did not sense any danger . My neighbors were as subdued after it as anyone else. They were looking for answers too. There was nothing but support .