# Most Americans oppose offshoring. We need to take action. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 1, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080 "2011-01-01T21:25:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/481 "2011-01-24T15:37:00Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > With offshoring the jobs still exist - they’re just being done elsewhere. With automation the jobs no longer exist at all. For our purposes, how does it matter that these jobs “still exist”? Consider: to give the job back to an American worker, in both cases it is necessary to forgo the new methods; we must either stop using the machine or fire the foreign employee. It doesn’t seem to matter whether the job is done by a foreign employee or by a machine. > [@](#): > > At some point, though, automation will kill more jobs than it creates; particularly when nano-manufacturing happens, or artificial intelligence matures (allowing for larger-scale automation of customer service, etc.). But even then that won’t be too big a problem - because the Sons of Stuxnet will kick automation so hard in its metallic ass that rollbacks will be done for national security’s sake. … you know, I’ll just leave that alone. It’s possible you’ve watched the ending to Escape from LA one too many times. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/482 "2011-01-24T15:59:51Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > But how do they “lock in” a lower wage? When a job opening comes that fits their education they’re more likely to get the job if they already _have_ a job. So there is no such thing as job _search_? Job offers simply come, one after another? Once you’ve accepted a job you have much less time to invest in a job search; and your salary becomes a base wage for further comparisons. Further: being out of work directly after graduation is, for employers, very different from someone who has been out of work for significant amounts of time in, say, middle age. > [@](#): > > Or you can take a job now that pays $5000 a month and move to a job that pays $6000 a month. That happens, too. ESPECIALLY in an employee’s market - which, if offshoring does not stop, America will never, ever see again, and this I can absolutely guarantee you. Don’t change the subject. That was an example to show how someone could, in principle, be better off waiting for another job offer. If it helps, consider that – by accepting the $5000 a month job immediately – the worker will no longer have time to look for a new job. > [@](#): > > Unless you’re the one stuck with them. I don’t think you understand. If you’re unemployed, you can get a deferment; they’re extraordinarily forgiving. Student loan penalties simply won’t occur. > [@](#): > > You guys started it by saying I’m not popular on the SDMB. You trotted out the claim that I’m the “lone voice in the dark”. You are completely unable to grasp the irony of the fact that you play argumentum ad populum and then cry foul when it’s done right back to you. I’d appreciate it if you could point out an instance of me implying that you’re wrong because SDMB posters disagree with you. I don’t even think I’ve remarked on your unpopularity here at all. > [@](#): > > Crying “Argumentum ad populum” is the last pathetic refuge of an idea that is facing extinction and is unable to come to grips with the fact that its power is fading. In short: pro-offshoring = followers of Zeus. How many people worship Zeus today? That’s you, in the not so distant future. THAT, I can guarantee you. You can guarantee me all you like. At one point, the Greek pantheon would have seemed overwhelmingly popular to those within its sphere of influence. Was this an argument for its truth? I’m not sure why my beliefs should be influenced one way or the other by a popularity contest; unless you give me some _reason_ then I am unconvinced (and frankly a little confused) by your protestations that voters will soon do away with offshoring. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/483 "2011-01-25T12:53:52Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > For our purposes, how does it matter that these jobs “still exist”? Still exist. As in they have not gone away, we are still programming computers and programming computers has not been replaced by some new line of work. > [@](#): > > Consider: to give the job back to an American worker, in both cases it is necessary to forgo the new methods; we must either stop using the machine or fire the foreign employee. Foreign employees do not equal “new methods”. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t seem to matter whether the job is done by a foreign employee or by a machine. It doesn’t seem to matter to you. I explained why you’re wrong above. > [@](#): > > … you know, I’ll just leave that alone. It’s possible you’ve watched the ending to Escape from LA one too many times. So now you’re claiming that there’s no such thing as Stuxnet. Or computer viruses. You honestly believe a computer virus can’t shut down an automated factory. All of that is science fiction to you. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/484 "2011-01-25T13:17:50Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > So there is no such thing as job _search_? Job offers simply come, one after another? Once you’ve accepted a job you have much less time to invest in a job search Yet people with jobs manage to do it all the time. There’s tons of articles out there on how to do a job search without alerting your current boss. I was a _master_ of doing that, hell I could do a seminar on it. I’d have to use very small words and crayon, though, for this crowd. > [@](#): > > and your salary becomes a base wage for further comparisons. Further: being out of work directly after graduation is, for employers, very different from someone who has been out of work for significant amounts of time in, say, middle age. That becomes less “very different” as the months drag on. Hint: I am an employer and work with other employers. It’s like dating - if you’re not dating other women then women think something’s wrong with you, but when you are dating someone, they all want you. Same with employers. As for middle aged people, well they’re the ones hit the hardest by offshoring. When their knowledge industry job goes to India employers _really_ don’t want them. Then they become a burden on society. But obviously you prefer that than them having a job. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Don’t change the subject. I wasn’t changing the subject. I used your own words. You offered a dichotomy and I showed you there was an option #3. > [@](#): > > That was an example to show how someone could, in principle, be better off waiting for another job offer. It was a false dichotomy style argument. > [@](#): > > If it helps, consider that – by accepting the $5000 a month job immediately – the worker will no longer have time to look for a new job. Absolutely, positively untrue. Google “looking for work while employed”. There are bazillions of links there. Right now as we speak employers are only LOOKING for people who are employed. [Employers do not even want people who are unemployed](http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/16/news/economy/unemployed_need_not_apply/index.htm). People who have jobs have plenty of time to look for another job. > [@](#): > > I don’t think you understand. If you’re unemployed, you can get a deferment; they’re extraordinarily forgiving. Student loan penalties simply won’t occur. Only up to 6 months. Unemployment nowadays can run as high as 2 years. > [@](#): > > You can guarantee me all you like. At one point, the Greek pantheon would have seemed overwhelmingly popular to those within its sphere of influence. The Greek Pantheon, my friend, is more akin to the pro-offshoring argument. When is this “efficient allocation” you kept talking about, ever going to happen? Ah yes, to quote emacknight, ya GOT NUTHIN’ there. We lost job stability because of offshoring. Now people are spending their entire lives competing for work and for what? What has it gotten us? Progress? Bullshit, we had progress before offshoring, and if we had never ALLOWED offshoring we would continue to have progress. Ya got nothin’ for the working class. Absolutely nothin’. Your own buddies at the Economist magazine have admitted as much. > [@](#): > > your protestations that voters will soon do away with offshoring. Have you seen all the statewide drives that are out there to stop offshoring? We’re fighting you all over the country. This is far beyond a popularity contest… it’s a political war. Within the next 5 years you’ll find that the US Chamber of Commerce’s efforts to stop laws against offshoring will result in statewide citizen initiatives - because we the people are sick of this. Offshoring is nothing but a load of empty promises. And you still haven’t acquired an understanding of “the high cost of low prices”, have you? ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/485 "2011-01-26T01:45:57Z")
[http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war\_room/2011/01/25/lind\_myth\_china/index.html](http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/01/25/lind_myth_china/index.html) > [@](#): > > Innovation and education are red herrings, tossed out to distract the American public from the real problem. If we were serious about competing with China, we would copy their tactics. Unlike China, the U.S. has not run chronic trade surpluses and cheated its people of wages and savings in order to amass vast funds that it can use to shower subsidies on particular companies. The U.S. government doesn’t have the money to lure multinationals to America or to keep them at home with gargantuan bribes. > > But the U.S. could emulate China by telling corporations that if they want access to America’s consumers they must produce at least a portion of the goods sold in the American market within America’s borders and employ American workers. If doing what China does already is incompatible with America’s obligations under the World Trade Organization, then so much the worse for the WTO. Why should America follow the rules while China cheats? > > The argument that other countries would retaliate by insisting on similar in-market production ignores the fact that most of America’s industrial competitors like China have similar informal policies already, at the expense of America’s productive base. The U.S. would not be launching a trade war. It would finally be defending itself, in a decades-old trade war in which, to date, it has remained disarmed. > > An old saw has it that you know politicians are lying if you can see their lips moving. That needs to be updated. Nowadays if they say that the U.S. must respond to the offshoring of American industry to China and other state-capitalist countries by investing more in innovation and education, you can be sure that American politicians are lying. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/486 "2011-01-27T05:57:05Z")
I guess you fucktards think Andy Grove is an idiot, too. [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-01/how-to-make-an-american-job-before-it-s-too-late-andy-grove.html](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-01/how-to-make-an-american-job-before-it-s-too-late-andy-grove.html) > [@](#): > > The first task is to rebuild our industrial commons. We should develop a system of financial incentives: Levy an extra tax on the product of offshored labor. (If the result is a trade war, treat it like other wars – fight to win.) Keep that money separate. Deposit it in the coffers of what we might call the Scaling Bank of the U.S. and make these sums available to companies that will scale their American operations. Such a system would be a daily reminder that while pursuing our company goals, all of us in business have a responsibility to maintain the industrial base on which we depend and the society whose adaptability – and stability – we may have taken for granted. If you guys think you can out-smart Andy Grove _of Intel Corporation_ you sure as hell would never tell him _to his face_ that he’s wrong. Not unless you want to be humiliated in public… ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/487 "2011-01-27T15:08:20Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > I guess you fucktards think Andy Grove is an idiot, too. Well, strictly speaking, at the moment you’re the only fucktard we think is an idiot. > [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > If you guys think you can out-smart Andy Grove _of Intel Corporation_ you sure as hell would never tell him _to his face_ that he’s wrong. Not unless you want to be humiliated in public… Let’s see: this is the same Intel that just 5 years after founding had two major production facilities in Asia, that in 30 years built a dozen or so production facilities in Malaysia, China, the Philippines and Vietnam. The same Intel that shut down facilities in the Philippines (and moved them to other countries with more favorable conditions) to locations such as China, in part due to…higher taxes. Right. :rolleyes: And even if he might be partially right about some of the problems - his obsession with ‘scaling’ is silly, because it occured in a world that doesn’t exist anymore: the late 1960s (when Intel was founded) might as well be the middle ages, given how different the world is today. When the VHS started coming out for the commercial market - almost exclusively from European and Japanese manufacturers - movie companies cried, shouted, stamped their feet, and all but did the biblical ‘rendering of garments’ in complaining that the VHS was unfair and would ‘kill their theater business’, which at one point accounted for 100% of movie companies’ earnings. Notice this nice little blurb from the then-head of the Motion Picture Association of America: > [@](#): > > We are going to bleed and bleed and hemorrhage, unless this Congress at least protects one industry that is able to retrieve a surplus balance of trade and whose total future depends on its protection from the savagery and the ravages of this machine. … I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone. Three guesses how film companies currently generate the most profit. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/488 "2011-01-27T15:09:47Z")
So, an American manufacturer wants to have the government put in place protectionism for American manufacturing and incentives for American companies who will scale their operations to American labor? And you are surprised by this? You think this is supporting your point? 😛 [QUOTE=Le Jacquelope] If you guys think you can out-smart Andy Grove of Intel Corporation you sure as hell would never tell him to his face that he’s wrong. Not unless you want to be humiliated in public… [/QUOTE] I’d laugh in his face and slowly and carefully explain what ‘conflict of interest’ means…assuming he was as dense as you and didn’t get it. Personally, I think he already knows the score and knows exactly why putting protectionist measures in place helps Intel, even if it hurts the country. He’s relying on idiots like you to not get it and to be swept up in the patriotism and over heated rhetoric. -XT ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/489 "2011-01-27T15:43:44Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > I guess you fucktards think Andy Grove is an idiot, too. > > [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-01/how-to-make-an-american-job-before-it-s-too-late-andy-grove.html](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-01/how-to-make-an-american-job-before-it-s-too-late-andy-grove.html) > If you guys think you can out-smart Andy Grove _of Intel Corporation_ you sure as hell would never tell him _to his face_ that he’s wrong. Not unless you want to be humiliated in public… Well, we’ll add “appeal to authority” to your “agumentum ad poplulum”. AG is not an authority on economics, as opposed to the multitude of economists who don’t favor such actions. He is (was, really) an authority on how to run a US corporation. I’ve met Andy Grove a number of times. He’s smart, but he’s not smart about everything. And, as already noted, Intel is the epitome of a globalized high tech company. Intel expanded manufacturing into Asia decades ago, and continues to do so today. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/490 "2011-01-27T16:11:26Z")
But if only we would make it worth Intel’s while by giving them an advantage and protecting their profits from foreign competition they’ll be happy to move facilities back to the US and use US labor! How can we turn down such a good faith offer? I mean, this suggestion does come from the (former) CEO of Intel after all…a guy who is an acknowledged expert in international trade and trade policy at the government level, and who has no stake in trying to put protectionist measures in place for the purposes of some nebulous advantage it would give him or his company… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/491 "2011-01-27T16:14:50Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > Only up to 6 months. Unemployment nowadays can run as high as 2 years. I’ve lost interest in arguing with you – for those following along at home – this is untrue. Deferments for unemployment and economic hardship can last up to three years. > **[What Is a Direct Subsidized Loans](https://www.edvisors.com/student-loans/federal-student-loans/subsidized/)** > > A Direct Subsidized Loan, sometimes referred to as a Federal Stafford Loan or Stafford Subsidized Loan, is a low-cost, fixed-rate, student loan available to undergraduate students with demonstrated financial need. (While I’m here … I suppose I’ll also note that it’s rather ludicrous to suggest that taking a job doesn’t make it harder to look for work. Why do you think there are so many links about looking for a job while employed? Because it’s hard – and it gets harder the fewer concessions you can wring out of your current employment. E.g., when are you going to schedule interviews if you can’t take a long lunch? What if you have limited sick days but have to travel for interviews? When I considered finding a job after finishing my MA, I had to fly all over the place to interview – if I were secretly looking for a job while employed that would have been nearly impossible.) ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/492 "2011-01-27T19:01:01Z")
Having access to the company fax machine/copier isn’t what it was a decade or two ago. Now anyone can afford a scanner in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/493 "2011-01-28T17:45:36Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > I’ve lost interest in arguing with you Likewise. You’re in re-runs now. Your case was dead weeks ago. > [@](#): > > – for those following along at home – this is untrue. Deferments for unemployment and economic hardship can last up to three years. > > [Federal Direct Subsidized Student Loans | Edvisors](http://www.staffordloan.com/repayment/deferment.php) Under extremely rare conditions. Good luck qualifying for that. While you’re at it, also try putting food on the table while you’re sitting around with no job. > [@](#): > > (While I’m here … I suppose I’ll also note that it’s rather ludicrous to suggest that taking a job doesn’t make it harder to look for work. Why do you think there are so many links about looking for a job while employed? Because it’s hard – and it gets harder the fewer concessions you can wring out of your current employment. E.g., when are you going to schedule interviews if you can’t take a long lunch? What if you have limited sick days but have to travel for interviews? When I considered finding a job after finishing my MA, I had to fly all over the place to interview – if I were secretly looking for a job while employed that would have been nearly impossible.) It’s not nearly as hard to fly across the world for an interview when you have money. Which you don’t when you’re jobless. Seriously… where in the world do you get your fantasies? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/494 "2011-01-28T17:56:52Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > It’s not nearly as hard to fly across the world for an interview when you have money. Which you don’t when you’re jobless. > > Seriously… where in the world do you get your fantasies? It’s easy to fly when you have money, wouldn’t you think? However, for those who are jobless, there are things called ‘savings’ and ‘credit’ which can be used to provide money to get a new job to both provide for oneself and replenish the expenses in finding a new job. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/495 "2011-01-28T18:05:37Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > Under extremely rare conditions. Good luck qualifying for that. Cite as to how difficult it is to get a deferment? Oh, wait, I forgot - I’m asking a retarded chimpanzee that doesn’t have a clue what a cite is. I’ve hired literally dozens of people. Interviewed thousands. It’s _always_ easier to arrange interviews for people not currently working. They can come in whenever. > [@](#): > > It’s not nearly as hard to fly across the world for an interview when you have money. Which you don’t when you’re jobless. I’ve worked for (counts…) 8 or 9 companies. Been recruited for the last 7. Four involved overseas relocation. I’ve never had to pay for my own airfare to interviews. I guess you just work for crappy companies. Course, that would make sense, as I’m sure you’re just filling their disabled worker quota. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/496 "2011-01-28T18:14:38Z")
Not only – as noted – did I not have to pay for the flights or the hotels, but if I had been working a full time job, how in the world would I have been able to take off at least one day (and upwards of three) every time I had an interview? I’m the one living in a fantasy world? You don’t even give any indication that you know what it’s like to have a real job. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/497 "2011-01-28T19:15:08Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I’ve hired literally dozens of people. Interviewed thousands. It’s _always_ easier to arrange interviews for people not currently working. They can come in whenever. **Le Jac’s** cite disagrees with you, and therefore trumps your real life experience. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/498 "2011-01-28T20:06:43Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > **Le Jac’s** cite disagrees with you, and therefore trumps your real life experience. Damn it. I hate when that happens. Actually, I just realized one of the problems - we’ve been using words like ‘deferment’. I don’t think the horned one can read words over two syllables; his intellectual capacity basically starts and stops at ‘fucktard’. We may have to re-word our posts accordingly. I am impressed tho. He’s managed to keep this intellectually starved, brain-dead, one-trick pony, sorry-ass excuse of thread going for (shortly will be) 11 pages, and has yet to run out of spittle. Lesser men would have been shamed at being beaten like a rented mule in every aspect of this so-called ‘debate’, but not Le Jerkoff. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/499 "2011-01-28T20:16:56Z")
Don’t forget, guys, that Le Jac is a trillionaire. When he has to go for interviews while out of work he always has to pay, and it’s really hard for him. He knows that, even if you are a trillionaire, it’s better to have a job to put food on your table than to be starving and have to figure out how to get to a job interview…which is why people out of work can’t possibly get a job unless we put in tariffs on ‘certain’ (_wink wink, nudge nudge_) countries and force…er, encourage…American companies to stop the horrors of outsourcing and offshoring and be more like Intel in word and deed and who has the best interests of America always firmly in mind. _pant pant pant_ America is about jobs and apple pie and mom and bunnies and duckies, and really cut puppies…and jobs. If I haven’t mentioned it, jobs are also what America is about. Plus the American dream, which means jobs…good old fashioned American Jobs, done by Americans for Americans and with Americans…plus having Americans watching from the side lines and possibly with other Americans doing other things that somehow works into the mix. The point though is that this is all about America…and jobs. Jobs that shouldn’t be done by any of those dirty foreigner types, unless they are from Canada or Europe or possibly Japanese, in which case it’s ok, sort of, since they don’t count. Just to recap…think jobs JOBS JOBS!!! And America. And tariffs…that’s key to US prosperity now and in the future. And no offshoring or outsourcing. Like Intel. And while you are thinking these things hum a few bars from America the Beautiful, and just mumble through the words you don’t know. Plus a really big waving American flag. And a puppy eating a bunny or ducky who was munching on some apple pie while sitting in moms lap and thinking about jobs… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080/500 "2011-01-29T09:49:00Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > **Le Jac’s** cite disagrees with you, and therefore trumps your real life experience. Real life experience? You should catch on fire just for saying such words. All the employers nowadays who only WANT people who are currently employed are wrong and you are right? Oh you don’t even know about that do you? Do you? Of course not. Hell there’s a lot you don’t know about. Of course if we started this conversation on what you actually know then there would be no conversation. There are cavemen out there who are more knowledgeable about modern society than you. You guys even think that Stuxnet viruses and industrial sabotage viruses are “Escape from LA” fantasy material… :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-oppose-offshoring-we-need-to-take-action/566080.md?page=26)