# Most Americans Still Think the Healthcare Bill Did Not Go Far Enough, Rather Than Being an Overreach **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009 "2010-09-25T14:57:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/1 "2010-09-25T14:57:39Z")
> [@](#): > > AP Poll: Repeal? Many wish health law went further > > WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul has divided the nation, and Republicans believe their call for repeal will help them win elections in November. But the picture’s not that clear cut. > > A new AP poll finds that Americans who think the law should have done more outnumber those who think the government should stay out of health care by 2-to-1. > … > > Overall, 30 percent favored the legislation, while 40 percent opposed it, and another 30 percent remained neutral. > > Those numbers are no endorsement for Obama’s plan, but the survey also found a deep-seated desire for change that could pose a problem for Republicans. Only 25 percent in the poll said minimal tinkering would suffice for the health care system. > > Brian Braley, 49, a tech industry worker from Mesa, Ariz., wants Washington to keep its hands off. “I think it’s a Trojan horse,” Braley said of the health care law. “It’s a communist, socialist scheme.” > … > It may well satisfy people who share Braley’s outlook if Republicans succeed in tearing out what they dismiss as “Obamacare” by the roots. But GOP leaders would still find themselves in a quandary. > > Republicans “are going to have to contend with the 75 percent who want substantial changes in the system,” said Stanford political science professor Jon Krosnick, who directed the university’s participation. > > [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100925/ap\_on\_re\_us/us\_health\_care\_poll/print](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100925/ap_on_re_us/us_health_care_poll/print) Back in [February](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12195856&highlight=public+option#post12195856), I pointed out that polls indicated that 64% of Americans supported a Medicare-for-All single payer plan, and 56% to 68% supported a public option. Obviously, this has not changed. First, this once again confirms the fact that most Americans (75%) want the government to regulate the health insurance industry to a greater extent (or even abolish it altogether). The remaining 25% basically correspond to the birther/Tea Partiers. Second, this really puts into doubt whether the GOP could realistically repeal the healthcare bill, as their “Pledge” [promises](http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/23/reichert-steve-king/). So, this presents the GOP with a dilemma: they can either go against the majority of Americans and repeal the bill (or repeal and replace it with a free-market-based version), or they can satisfy their base and repeal it. The former route would seemingly encounter widespread opposition; the latter would cost them their base. What will they do if they regain the House? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/2 "2010-09-25T15:08:12Z")
It doesn’t matter what most Americans think. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/3 "2010-09-25T15:22:28Z")
Most Americans are irrelevant. Voters and campaign contributors are all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/4 "2010-09-25T15:59:55Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Voters and campaign contributors are all that matters. Hence the admins scorn for the progressives who mobilized the resources to get Obama elected? If we’d wanted a moderate Republican president, we should have nominated Ben Nelson or Joe Leibermann. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/5 "2010-09-25T16:28:17Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > > [@Todderbob](#): > > > > Voters and campaign contributors are all that matters. > > Hence the admins scorn for the progressives who mobilized the resources to get Obama elected? > If we’d wanted a moderate Republican president, we should have nominated Ben Nelson or Joe Leibermann. The banks have drowned Obama in campaign cash, and in his haze he has forgotten to show the token support for progressives expected of him. The only way to make them come to their senses is to only vote for real progressives. If they want to continue on their current course, let them take a hit this year. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/6 "2010-09-25T16:45:40Z")
The main link in your OP doesn’t work, and your link to the “Pledge” is a link to ThinkProgress. At any rate, no one seriously believes the Republicans can repeal the bill. It’s easy for them to pledge to “try” to repeal the bill, appealing to their base, knowing full well they won’t be able to. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/7 "2010-09-25T16:47:26Z")
Sorry, here is the [AP news link](http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJhc2o5a24wBF9TAzM5ODMwMTA0MQRnc3RhdGUDMQRwb3MDNARzZWMDbndfdG9wc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDdGl0bGUEdGFyA25ld3MueWFob28uY29t/SIG=13r2t11ck/**http%3A//us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rss/topstories/*http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100925/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_poll). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/8 "2010-09-25T16:59:11Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > Sorry, here is the [AP news link](http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJhc2o5a24wBF9TAzM5ODMwMTA0MQRnc3RhdGUDMQRwb3MDNARzZWMDbndfdG9wc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDdGl0bGUEdGFyA25ld3MueWFob28uY29t/SIG=13r2t11ck/**http%3A//us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rss/topstories/*http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100925/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_poll). Thanks. I wish they would link to the actual poll, because this: > [@](#): > > The poll found that about four in 10 adults think the new law did not go far enough to change the health care system, regardless of whether they support the law, oppose it or remain neutral. Does not make me think that “most” Americans think the HCR law did not go far enough. Note that the article’s title says “many”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/9 "2010-09-25T17:04:13Z")
[Polling Report to the rescue.](http://www.pollingreport.com/health.htm) (Gotta love this site!) The first poll, Fox/Opinion Research is close to the AP Poll, saying 36% think the bill did not go far enough. But look at the CBS poll, just below it! 82% of Americans want the law repealed. Maybe the Pubbies are onto something. Not that they’ll be able to repeal it, though. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/10 "2010-09-25T18:58:16Z")
Uh, \*\*John? \*\*That’s 82% of the people who disapprove. Not Americans in general. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/11 "2010-09-25T19:02:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Uh, \*\*John? \*\*That’s 82% of the people who disapprove. Not Americans in general. My bad. I didn’t see that. I was kind of wondering how we could get 82% of Americans to agree on anything! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/12 "2010-09-25T19:06:25Z")
I had a similar reaction. Well, actually, mine was **AAArrroooga! AAArooooga! WTF! WTF!** ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/13 "2010-09-25T19:53:50Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Most Americans are irrelevant. > > Voters and campaign contributors are all that matters. Cross out “voters” and you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/14 "2010-09-25T22:54:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > [Polling Report to the rescue.](http://www.pollingreport.com/health.htm) (Gotta love this site!) > > The first poll, Fox/Opinion Research is close to the AP Poll, saying 36% think the bill did not go far enough. > > But look at the CBS poll, just below it! 82% of Americans want the law repealed. > > Maybe the Pubbies are onto something. Not that they’ll be able to repeal it, though. Thanks for that link. The problem is that the Fox poll is the only one listed on the page that actually asked people whether they want more reform, and not just whether they approve or disapprove of the bill–and it does so ambiguously: > [@](#): > > 9/14-16/10 > “Which of the following makes you more upset – that the new health care law doesn’t go far enough, or that the health care bill passed Congress and became law at all?” > That it doesn’t go far enough = 36% > That it became law at all = 47% > Both = 2% > Neither = 5% > Unsure = 10% The dichotomy is not “too far / not far enough,” but “not far enough / oppose law as it stands,” which involves 2 opinions are not mutually exclusive (as evidenced by the fact that 2% said “yes” to both). Check out the polls I cited in the [earlier thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12195856&highlight=public+option#post12195856). Some of those polls did delineate the “too far / just right / not far enough” categories of people, and consistently found that a majority wanted more reform and more government intervention, whether that was in the form of a public option or a single payer system. > [@](#): > > At any rate, no one seriously believes the Republicans can repeal the bill. It’s easy for them to pledge to “try” to repeal the bill, appealing to their base, knowing full well they won’t be able to. Given how animated their base is, what will happen when they fail to deliver on that promise? Will they nominate even more extremist candidates in future primaries (if that’s even possible)? Will they give up? Will they resort to what Sharron Angle referred to as “Second Amendment remedies” (i.e., domestic terrorism)? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/15 "2010-09-26T14:41:29Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > Thanks for that link. The problem is that the Fox poll is the only one listed on the page that actually asked people whether they want more reform, and not just whether they approve or disapprove of the bill–and it does so ambiguously: > The dichotomy is not “too far / not far enough,” but “not far enough / oppose law as it stands,” which involves 2 opinions are not mutually exclusive (as evidenced by the fact that 2% said “yes” to both). That’s easy to get around by just adding 2% to the 36% to get 38% who think the law didn’t go far enough. And that is still consistent with the cite you gave in this thread which said about 40%. > [@](#): > > Check out the polls I cited in the [earlier thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12195856&highlight=public+option#post12195856). Some of those polls did delineate the “too far / just right / not far enough” categories of people, and consistently found that a majority wanted more reform and more government intervention, whether that was in the form of a public option or a single payer system. Those are not very good polls. They ask if people want to require employers to provide health insurance. Wow, 75% of people want that. Well, who wouldn’t, since they don’t say what the consequences will be. They might as well be asking if people want their employers to give them a car or a pony. How about asking if they want employers to provide health insurance if it means they will take a 10% cut in pay (or something along those lines)? > [@](#): > > Given how animated their base is, what will happen when they fail to deliver on that promise? Will they nominate even more extremist candidates in future primaries (if that’s even possible)? Will they give up? Will they resort to what Sharron Angle referred to as “Second Amendment remedies” (i.e., domestic terrorism)? A few nut cases probably will. The GOP has been promising to repeal Roe v Wade ever since that ruling was made. They had 4 years of control of the WH and Congress just recently, and what happened? Pro-lifers are every bit as “animated” as the anti-Obamacare folks are. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/16 "2010-09-26T16:56:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The GOP has been promising to repeal Roe v Wade ever since that ruling was made. They had 4 years of control of the WH and Congress just recently, and what happened? They discovered that Roe v. Wade was a Supreme Court decision and repealing it required a 2/3rds majority of both houses, plus a 3/4ths majority of state legislatures. Or five sufficiently committed justices and a new case. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/17 "2010-09-26T19:31:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Or five sufficiently committed justices and a new case. Sure, but at the same time, the Supreme Court had the majority of its members appointed by Republicans, too. To the extent that the Supreme Court is affiliated with political parties at all, the Republicans controlled all three branches of government. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/18 "2010-09-26T20:40:46Z")
Yeah, but they’re lace curtain, Episcopalian conservatives, they’re somewhat embarrased by the raggedy-ass Baptist yokels who’ve taken over. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/19 "2010-09-27T00:04:15Z")
They turned them on with Fox Gnus and crazy rhetoric . Now they can’t turn them off. They can not dial down the craziness or they risk losing them. The Repubs have created a monster that could eat them. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009/20 "2010-09-27T00:53:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Those are not very good polls. They ask if people want to require employers to provide health insurance. Wow, 75% of people want that. Well, who wouldn’t, since they don’t say what the consequences will be. They might as well be asking if people want their employers to give them a car or a pony. This. This poll is irrelevant because it asks people if they want free money. Well dunh. I’ll conduct a poll and ask the American people if they want their taxes cut by 50%. I wonder what they’ll say? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-americans-still-think-the-healthcare-bill-did-not-go-far-enough-rather-than-being-an-overreach/555009.md?page=2)