# Most Archaic Anthem?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [December 6, 2022, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081 "2022-12-06T05:46:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/21 "2022-12-06T21:48:57Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#):
>
> Really? The OED shows It’s clearly a variation on “gird,” which means “to surround” with the connotation of preparing for battle. The sea surrounds Australia and makes it ready for battle.
Please.
Advance Australia Fair is an innocuous little ditty, with keywords like:
“rejoice”, “young”, “free”, “wealth”, “gifts”, “beauty”, “share” etc.
And right in the middle of the opening verse you want to drop “ready for battle”?
No. Just no.
Now I will readily concede that the OED has the formidable reputation befitting a country with centuries of bloody insurrection, civil war, invasion from the north and south and of course themselves invading practically every country on the globe.
But down here in this antipodean Elysian paradise we have our own definitive record of choice, the Macquarie Dictionary. And regarding the singular most prominent word in the national anthem the Macca Book of Words’ complete entry is:
> [@](#):
>
> **girt** _v_ 1. a past tense and past participle of gird. 2. _Naut_ (of a vessel) moored so tightly as to prevent swinging.
As to being a rousing martial call to arms and past glories it’s barely one step up from our Oceanic neighbours the Kiwis where with [0% Army, 0% Navy and 0% Airforce](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUYbI64QHI) may “God Defend New Zealand”.
YMMV
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2022, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/22 "2022-12-06T22:35:22Z")
I may have over emphasized the one definition, but the one clearly used here means “surrounded.” Did you not read the OED quote? I’ll repeat it:
> [@OED](#):
>
> **6.** **a.** Said of that which surrounds: To encircle, enclose, confine.
“Our home is girt by sea” = “Our home is surrounded by sea.” Seems like a pretty good description.
As for the use of “girt” instead of 'girded," poets often use older forms in order to preserve the rhythm (especially important for song lyrics). Heck, the _Star Spangled Banner_ uses “o’er.”
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/23 "2022-12-06T22:46:02Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#):
>
> Canada has edited the anthem twice in my memory, making it marginally less religious and a little more gender neutral.
The French version is still very religious.
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### Author:  [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/24 "2022-12-06T22:50:09Z")
Before _Rule, Britannia!_ and _God Save The King_, there was _Britannia, Britons, strike home!_
> [Dr Martha Vandrei](https://humanities.exeter.ac.uk/history/staff/vandrei/), from the University of Exeter, who has uncovered details about the song and its use, said: “It would be certainly interesting to hear how audiences at this year’s Last Night of the Proms reacted to _Britannia,_ _Britons, strike home._
>
> “Two hundred years ago it was a British anthem on a par with _Rule, Britannia!_ and _God save the Queen_. But the sense of Britishness that the phrase encapsulated was beginning to lose its potency in the latter half of the nineteenth century.
>
> “It represented an older Britain and didn’t seem to capture the country’s modern imperial identify.”
>
> _Britons, strike home_ was first used in a play about Boudica, and described how the Ancient British general, Caratach tried to rouse the army against the Romans, appealing to the Druids to sing and take up arms.
> \*\*\> \*\*
> **\> The Chief Druid sings: Britons, strike home! / Revenge, revenge your Country’s wrong / Fight! Fight and record. Fight! / Fight and record yourselves in Druid’s Song / Fight! Fight and record. Fight! / Fight and record yourselves in Druid’s Song”.**
>
> Dr Vandrei said: “It’s possible the song’s references to Druids, timely when it was first performed because of a current interest in ancient British history, left later audiences cold. In a time of science and increasing secularism a song about Boudica and her pagan hordes may have seemed absurd.”
>
> Henry Purcell wrote the song a few months before his untimely death in 1695 – making it fifty years older than _Rule, Britannia_! The song became popular in theatres and was performed publicly throughout Great Britain.
Above quoted from
[https://www.exeter.ac.uk/news/archive/2018/september/title\_680679\_en.html](https://www.exeter.ac.uk/news/archive/2018/september/title_680679_en.html)
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### Author:  [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2022, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/25 "2022-12-07T00:10:07Z")
In fact I was wrong. They did replace “O Canada” with a statement about God, increasing that. But I seem to recall they did this in 1978 or 1979 before making it the official version. Funny some of the web histories of the anthem gloss over this, which I clearly remember.
C’est evident la version francaise est plus religieuse. D’autrefois il y avait deux forces puissantes en la societe quebecoise: l’eglise et le hockey sur glace. Mais cette espece d’anachronisme n’est pas inhabituelle ni grave. Ils s’en fous qu’il y avait un epopee des glorieux exploits, et aujourd’hui plusiers preferent de porter les croissants aux croix, je crois, leurs choix, peut-etre un peu bourgeois?
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2022, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/26 "2022-12-07T00:28:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> > [@Bootb](#):
> >
> > Key knew what all educated Americans knew, but what you apparently do not–that during the Revolutionary War, the British hired mercenaries called Hessians.
>
> That would be a valid point if the song was about the revolution. It’s not. It’s about the war of 1812, in which the British offered immediate emancipation to any slaves (and their families) that joined their cause.
Things didn’t work out so well for that small number of freed slaves. Our “foes’ haughty host” [weren’t exactly heroic rescuers](https://www.nps.gov/articles/wedged-between-slavery-and-freedom.htm), and Britain didn’t really get around to abolishing slavery until 1838, and then only through the government [spending enormous amounts of money to compensate slave owners](http://bbc.com/culture/article/20200205-how-britain-is-facing-up-to-its-secret-slavery-history) (the government didn’t finish paying off loans for the bailout _until 2015_.
In case anyone is wondering, the second through fourth verses of the Star-Spangled Banner might as well not exist, as they aren’t remembered or sung.
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### Author:  [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2022, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/27 "2022-12-07T00:31:45Z")
Has Greece ever played all 158 verses?
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2022, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/28 "2022-12-07T00:41:57Z")
The Ankh-Morpork Civic Anthem makes reference to dragons and hippos, but is more famous for being written as most anthems are usually sung.
_"When dragons belch and hippos flee_
_My thoughts, Ankh-Morpork, are of thee_
_Let others boast of martial dash_
_For we have boldly fought with cash_
_We own all your helmets, we own all your shoes_
_We own all your generals - touch us and you’ll lose._
_Morporkia! Morporkia!_
_Morporkia owns the day!_
_We can rule you wholesale_
_Touch us and you’ll pay._
_We bankrupt all invaders, we sell them souvenirs_
_We ner ner ner ner ner, hner ner hner by the ears_
_Er hner we ner ner ner ner ner_
_Ner ner her ner ner ner hner the ner_
_Er ner ner hner ner, nher hner ner ner (etc.)_
_Ner hner ner, your gleaming swords_
_We mortgaged to the hilt_
_Morporkia! Morporkia!_
_Hner ner ner ner ner ner_
_We can rule you wholesale_
_Credit where it’s due."_
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### Author:  [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/29 "2022-12-07T00:48:01Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#):
>
> I may have over emphasized the one definition, but the one clearly used here means “surrounded.” Did you not read the OED quote?
You took poetic license, all hale to you.
I ignored it, as is my prerogative.
But we are both being selective.
You could have picked “confined” instead of “surrounded”, which given the convict heritage of the place puts a neat _realpolitick_ twist of history to it.
I could have run the puritanical angle like say:
While we are young and free,
With hedonistic beaches,
Regrettably, we don’t swing.
Obscure, yes. Archaic? Probably not.
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### Author:  [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2022, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/30 "2022-12-07T02:05:31Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> In case anyone is wondering, the second through fourth verses of the Star-Spangled Banner might as well not exist, as they aren’t remembered or sung.
Sorry - nope, don’t buy it. If they aren’t remembered or sung, then it should be changed. And the badness of the original should still be acknowledged no matter what.
and the following is just trying to downplay that they were offering freedom to American slaves and that even moreso that the American national anthem praises/glorifies the killing of those attempting to escape slavery - pure trying to draw attentions to the sins of others to make the sins of the United States (and glorification of those actions still officially part of our anthem) seem lesser
> [@](#):
>
> Things didn’t work out so well for that small number of freed slaves. Our “foes’ haughty host” [weren’t exactly heroic rescuers](https://www.nps.gov/articles/wedged-between-slavery-and-freedom.htm), and Britain didn’t really get around to abolishing slavery until 1838, and then only through the government [spending enormous amounts of money to compensate slave owners](http://bbc.com/culture/article/20200205-how-britain-is-facing-up-to-its-secret-slavery-history) (the government didn’t finish paying off loans for the bailout _until 2015_.
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### Author:  [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2022, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/31 "2022-12-07T02:51:09Z")
It was NOT about black slaves, but about mercenary soldiers. I’m sick and tire of people running down the anthemn over that verse.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2022, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/32 "2022-12-07T02:52:35Z")
For pure violence and blood, nothing tops the Danish royal anthem, " Kong Christian stod ved højen mast" / “King Christian stood by the lofty mast”:
> [@](#):
>
> [King Christian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_IV_of_Denmark) stood by the lofty mast
> In mist and smoke;
> **His sword was hammering so fast,**
> **Through Gothic helm and brain it passed** ;
> Then sank each hostile hulk and mast,
> In mist and smoke.
Just can’t get enough of helms splitting, brains spattering, and enemy ships sinking in the smoke of their own fires.
Really, what more does one need to celebrate one’s country?
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2022, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/33 "2022-12-07T03:33:11Z")
Forgot to mention: verses 2, 3 and 4 are also well worth a look-see.
> **[Kong Christian stod ved højen mast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kong_Christian_stod_ved_h%C3%B8jen_mast)**
>
> Kong Christian stod ved højen mast (Danish pronunciation: \[kʰʌŋ ˈkʰʁestjæn ˈstoðˀ ve̝ ˈhʌjˀn̩ mæst\]; "King Christian stood by the lofty mast"), commonly shortened to Kong Christian, is the unofficial royal anthem of the Kingdom of Denmark that officially has equal status of national anthem together with Der er et yndigt land, though it is almost exclusively used in relation to the Danish royal house and the military. The theme of the song is about the heroics of Danish and Norwegian sailors du
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### Author:  [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/34 "2022-12-07T16:00:25Z")
[Japan’s national anthem](https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/periods-genres/national-anthems/japan-kimigayo-english-lyrics-history-short-hymn/) obliquely references the Emperor, but otherwise contains neither violence nor jingoism.
May your reign
Continue for a thousand, eight thousand generations,
Until the tiny pebbles
Grow into massive boulders
Lush with moss
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### Author:  [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2022, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/35 "2022-12-08T08:39:57Z")
It’s not a national anthem but I always thought the US Air Force anthem was complete garbage.
```
> Off we go into the wild blue yonder,
```
> ```
> Climbing high into the sun;
> Here they come zooming to meet our thunder,
> At ‘em now, Give 'em the gun! give em the gun!
> Down we dive, spouting our flame from under,
> Off with one helluva roar!
> We live in fame or go down in flame. Hey!
> Nothing'll stop the U.S. Air Force!
>
> ```
You can tell it was written in the 1950s, seems like it should be the opening song to some bad sci-fi show.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2022, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/36 "2022-12-08T08:53:05Z")
> [@Baker](#):
>
> It was NOT about black slaves, but about mercenary soldiers.
Cites to the contrary have already been provided. What is your source for claiming that “slave” doesn’t mean “slave”?
> [@Asuka](#):
>
> You can tell it was written in the 1950s, seems like it should be the opening song to some bad sci-fi show.
I was thinking Mel Brooks;
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wai7VFzycI)
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### Author:  [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2022, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/37 "2022-12-08T09:43:41Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#):
>
> The second verse of _God Save The King_ calls upon.God to scatter his enemies, up to their knavish tricks.
The line with _knavish_ in it is _Frustrate their knavish tricks_. Now _knavish_ seems like a somewhat archaic word, but it isn’t the original word there. The original line was:
_Frustrate their **papist** tricks_.
As if all the King’s enemies are Catholics.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2022, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/38 "2022-12-08T10:45:16Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#):
>
> [Japan’s national anthem](https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/periods-genres/national-anthems/japan-kimigayo-english-lyrics-history-short-hymn/) obliquely references the Emperor, but otherwise contains neither violence nor jingoism.
Neither does the Israeli one. Mostly, it has yearning:
_As long as in the heart within,_
_The Jewish soul yearns,_
_And toward the eastern edges, onward,_
_An eye gazes toward Zion._
_Our hope is not yet lost,_
_The hope that is two-thousand years old,_
_To be a free nation in our land,_
_The Land of Zion and Jerusalem._
Of course, it was written 70 years before independence, and adopted unofficially by the Zionist Movement 25 years later, long before anyone imagined violence would be involved.
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### Author:  [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2022, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/39 "2022-12-09T08:32:57Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#):
>
> The second verse of _God Save The King_ calls upon.God to scatter his enemies, up to their knavish tricks.
Please can we put that old canard to its archaic rest. Whatever the original authors and performers did in 1745, in its more recent use as a national anthem, there is rarely more than one verse used. The only times you might hear a second verse it would be the Britten arrangement using the interestingly conditional
_Thy choicest gifts in store
On him be pleased to pour.
May he defend our laws
And ever give us cause
To be sing with heart and voice
God save the King!_
---
### Author:  [@its\_the\_daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/its_the_daddy)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2022, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-archaic-anthem/976081/40 "2022-12-09T08:49:31Z")
And the egregiously bad rhyme, cause/voice.
That grated on me when I had to learn it as a Wolf Cub, aged 8. And still does.
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