Do you understand the level of competition back then? Yeah, really.
If it’s measured by contemporaneous standards, then it’s still a modern athlete because competition is now global and inclusive. Athletes were measured in the past against smaller and exclusive competition.
Didrikson compared to the modern heptathlete? It is to laugh.
In that terms of physical conditioning and longevity I agree with you.
He probably could excel in multiple sports. But Jim Thorpe actually did. “Did” always beats “could”, in my book.
Nor do you. He made an autobiographical film about his unusual childhood that I linked above. He was trained as an actor/performer. Not as a martial artist.
Here is an article:
I am not saying he was not trained as an actor/performer. That does not mean that he wasn’t also trained in Kung Fu. The performance training he received was very similar training to that Bruce Lee underwent. Kung Fu training is not simply the practicing of specific moves, it is an overall athletic regimen in addition to fighting styles, and Jackie Chan would have had a wider exposure to the different styles than Bruce Lee. Kung Fu combat was not performed in any organized league. Only in the United States did Bruce begin to participate in organized sanctioned competitions.
Lebron has focused at one ability for most of his life. He may be among the greatest basketball players by any measure, but I don’t think being able to dunk on Jim Thorpe in any way, shape, or form makes him more athletic.
For what it’s worth, Ashton Eaton holds the Olympic record in the decathlon – you know, from when he won a second gold medal at it – along with the world record, since, well, he was just that good at that many things for that many years.
He also holds the world record in the men’s heptathlon – which removes one of his best events, the 400m (where he racked up points by beating every other Olympic decathlete, both times) and instead calls for crazy-fast track-star tricks that aren’t on the ‘decathlon’ menu (namely, the 60m dash and the 60m hurdles).
(And he earned that heptathlon world record the same way he earned that decathlon world record: by breaking the previous world record, which was also set by Eaton.)
Bo Jackson is an excellent candidate. If he’d proved more durable, he could have challenged Jim Thorpe, but Thorpe was dominant much longer and with dramatically worse training and support infrastructure.
Not really offering this next name to challenge, but just to put an outstanding athletic feat into the discussion:
Another vote for Thorpe.
So far, Thorpe.
I think we should be looking at extreme sports, for example someone like the mountain climber Ueli Steck who recently died:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=825127
Here was a video from that thread:
For a truly bizarre choice, there’s Karl Hermann Gotthard Handrick, who won Olympic gold in the modern pentathlon – so, y’know, full marks for running and swimming and shooting and fencing and horseback riding – as, well, a flying ace.
So he could compete on the track or in the pool; but how many champion runners and swimmers could so excel with reflexes and hand-eye coordination?
Not yet mentioned: Deion Sanders.
In high school he was All-State in football, basketball, and baseball (he was not allowed to run track, but he would have been a shoo-in for All-State in track as well). He dominated three sports in college.
He is the only person to play in both the Super Bowl and the World Series. He is also the only man to hit a MLB home run and score an NFL touchdown in the same week. He was the NFL’s first two-way starter since 1962.
He ran the 40 in 4.19. Oh yeah, he also ran it *backwards *in 4.6.
mmm
I came here to also add Neon Deion Sanders.
And yet, Thorpe is getting a ton of votes here because he “could” have been a lot better than he was, if he had modern training, equipment, and technique. But modern athletes are so far past him that he probably wouldn’t even qualify for the NCAA championship today, based on what he actually “did.” You can’t have it both ways.
After I wrote that, I got curious, and wondered if I could prove it. I found Thorpe’s world record decathlon times and distances here, and a decathlon points calculator here.
If the web pages are accurate, and if I didn’t make a mistake, his 8413-point performance in the 1912 Olympics would be worth only 6650 points with today’s scoring. To get into the NCAA championships, you have to be in the top 24 in the country for the year. 6650 was outside thetop 90 for 2016. Never mind a gold medal; he might have trouble getting a scholarship on a top tier US college track team.
I can see trying to make a case for sports that can’t really be objectively measured, like boxing or gymnastics, although IMO anyone who thinks Jack Dempsey could beat Mike Tyson in their respective primes is crazy. But when you can time or measure a performance, IMO it’s silly to say the old-timers were as good as today’s athletes. Thorpe was dominant, yes, but he dominated a field of relative duds. That’s not his fault, of course, but it’s a fact.
Saying Thorpe is the greatest athlete of all time, based on dominating the competition available in 1912, is like saying Young Tom Morris is the greatest golfer of all time, based on his winning the British Open four times in a row. It’s true that probably nobody will ever do that again, but he was playing against a couple of dozen club pros from Scotland, not a world class field, when he did it. It’s just a different world today.
Based on the logic displayed in this thread, movie “Tarzan” Johnny Weissmuller is the greatest swimmer of all time. He was reportedly undefeated in a career of hundreds of meets, and set world and Olympic swimming records that stood for years. We can’t know how much better he might have been if he were an Indiana sophomore today. But we do know that his best times have since been beaten by high school girls.
Rather than Thorpe being so great that he would still dominate today with modern advantages, I think it’s far more likely that Thorpe was just a little more genetically gifted than his contemporaries. But with the much larger talent pools we have today, I think it’s 99 to 1 that he would be outclassed today, even given modern training and nutrition and equipment. He would have been better, yes, but not as good as the current best.
In the high jump, there are no foam pits to land in, just sawdust.
The pole vault was using a metal pole.
The sprints started from dug out holes on a dirt or cinder track.
The dirt/cinder tracks are a factor in the 400 and 1500.
CB Fry, of course.
Captain of the England cricket team. Played with WG Grace and Ranjitsinhji.
Joint holder of the world record in the long jump.
Played for England in Association Football also, and played for Southampton in the FA Cup final.
Played at top club level in Rugby Union.
Also known as a golfer, shot-putter, ice-skater and hammer thrower, and sprinter, hurdler and high-jumper.
I also came to nominate Jim Thorpe.
I’m not saying I have a favorite either way, but this leaves out a LOT of variables.
ETA: missed Running Coach’s post.
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