OK, then, take an athlete from a different field, and give them training comparable to Thorpe’s. I don’t think Lebron James has ever trained at track and field, for instance: How would his pole-vault look?
Like shit. I don’t know if poles are even made that are rated for that much weight.
Despite my username, I’ve coached pole vaulting (high school). Once you reach the pole bending stage, the vaulter’s abilities as a gymnast start to be a factor.
Vaulting is, by far, the most complicated event in track.
Chico Scimone. He still competed in the annual Empire State Building Run-Up into his 90’s.
I doubt there would be many takers for pole vaulting into a sandpit. But for what it’s worth, Thorpe’s pole vault in the decathlon was 82% as high as the winning pole vault in the specialist event in the same Olympics. In the 2016 Olympics, the decathlon winner’s pole vault (which was not the best pole vault among the decathletes) was 86% as high as the winning vault in the specialist event, and about 6 feet higher than Thorpe’s.
I agree that the metal pole and sand pit would make a significant difference in the pole vault. I disagree that the composition of the track or hurdles or shot or javelin or discus would make much difference in the other events. You might lose a tenth or two of a second getting up to speed on a cinder track, but unless it’s pouring rain, it won’t make much difference in the jumps, 400, or 1500, and certainly not in the field events.
ETA: But after seeing some of the later nominees, Thorpe is looking a lot better to me.
How about the Rio 100-metre bronze medalist running on a dirt track?
That was one of the worst tracks I’ve ever seen. That sand was almost like a beach while the track Owens ran on was clearly well compacted.
I only really follow basketball so I’m ignorant of the wider sports world, but I’m wondering if there’s anyone in the running for most athletic seven footer beside Wilt Chamberlain. He’s known for basketball, but he also did track and field, weight lifting, and ran ultra marathons, though I’m dubious about the PRs you find for him online. But looking at old video he’s certainly quick and agile for such a big guy.
A better comparison might be between the 1964 and 1968 Olympics, since 1968 was the first time they used an artificial surface track. There are other variables — 1968 was at high altitude, which typically makes short races faster, and long races slower, with the dividing line around 400m. 1964 was the first use of electronic timing, so no advantage there. It could also be argued that the late 50’s to early 60’s were when TVs became common in almost every first world home, and the Olympics were seen by millions for the first time. The increased exposure and popularity increased the depth of the talent pools.
I’m too lazy to try to format the results, so here are the links, look for yourself:
For those even lazier than I, all the times were faster in 1968, but other than Bob Beamon’s crazy long jump, I don’t see anything dramatic. The differences ranged from 0.05 seconds in the 100m, to 3.2 seconds in the 1500m.
The problem is the 1964 1500 was very tactical. The entire field went through the third lap in 2:59-3:00 then a sprint to the finish. Unfortunately, there’s no splits listed for the 1968 event.
In the 100m, .05 is actually a significant drop.
Just to be clear, the “you”'s in my last post were addressed to the board as a whole, and not to Running Coach.
When I think of greatest overall athletes, I think it has to be someone who possesses a combination of strength, speed, endurance, and the ability to master athletic skills, which I suppose involves a certain degree of athletic ‘intelligence’. Some names that come to mind are Jim Thorpe, Bo Jackson, and Deion Sanders. I would have said Lance Armstrong, but he’s forever tainted by his use of steroids. But anyone who can win a bike race like the Tour de France legitimately is a bad-ass. I think triathletes and decathletes have to be considered. Mixed martial artists, particularly smaller ones who probably possess good speed to complement their raw strength and agility, have to be considered as well. Conor McGregor, for example, is probably a damn good overall athlete, as was Anderson Silva in his prime.
I realize I’ve mostly mentioned North American athletes. I’m sure there must be other athletes from other parts of the world and from other eras who are good candidates for the title of most athletic person ever.
Forrest Gump’s alive and…running! :eek:
I think that Lance Armstrong might be the most powerful* (augmented) human ever, but while power is certainly one component of athleticism, it’s not the only one, and bicycle racing doesn’t require all that much agility or reflexes, for instance. For that matter, it also doesn’t depend on strength or speed in isolation, just their product: For any given power, you can use the gearing to get the strength or speed you need.
*“Powerful” being used in its physics sense here, of being able to output the most energy per unit time
Olympic weightlifting for peak output.
Roughly 4.9 horsepower.
Up to 100 times a game.
ETA:Such things as throwing the caber might be up there, too.
Per wiki, Milt Campbell went from silver to gold in the decathlon before playing professional football before getting seriously interested in competitive judo.
So, record-breaking track star, but with a knack for picking up other skills.
I like it, I like it a lot!
Good contribution.
True, other athletes can achieve higher peak power. Bicyclists might still be the highest sustained power, though (and now we have to define just how long a time we mean by “sustained”).
Maybe most work done in a 24-hour period? But in that case, ultramarathoners or other endurance athletes might be able to beat cyclists, because the cyclist is taking breaks for the night while the ultramarathoner keeps on running.
If we apply the criterion of being able to excel in multiple sports, it’s even conceivable that a particular candidate wouldn’t necessarily be considered dominant in a specific sport but able to perform near the highest level across multiple sports. Milt Campbell is a great candidate for that reason, although I am guessing there are others worthy of consideration as well.
Both bikers and ultramarathoners can and do go for 24 hours straight. There’s a 24 hour record that’s been tracked since the 1890’s and currently stands at 560 miles. The 24 hour running record is around 185 miles.
We do seem to be heading towards a consensus that decathletes are the likely choices based on demonstrated versatility as a criteria.
I’d say single sport performance is a different category, and some distinction there between endurance and complexity of the sport. So some guy who was a great basketball player whose team didn’t win the playoffs this year might be a candidate in the eyes of some, but still not a good comparison against a Tour De France bicyclist or super-marathon runner.
Way back in the 80s Playboy had an article about the toughest athletes. They had 15 round boxers at the top of the list, with obviously the high level of punishment received in their favor, along with the high level of stamina and output to the point of exhaustion in less than one hour.