Hey guys I don’t think arguing whether or not you personally think a gun is necessary is relevant to the discussion at hand of government overreach in crisis situations.
This isn’t Britain or Canada in the 70s.
First of all there are many situations were you would need a handgun.
You cannot compare Britain an island, which is easily contained to the USA.
You are comparing apples and oranges.
if a six foot man, 200 pound man is threatening to kill a 5’ 90 pound woman she needs one
The statement no one needs one is at best naive and more likely made simply to provoke. This blanket black and white thinking and lack of analogy skills is what gets people in trouble.
I think the overall point is that we can argue about gun ownership, but the argument is no different now that it was before Covid-19. However, the pandemic should not be a way to get your own public policy choice enacted (whether that is banning guns or abortions) under the guise of the emergency.
But I want to do my looting a raiding NOW!
I can get you a good deal on a nice machete. No bothersome background checks, no costly ammo, and decapitation is great exercise. You can loot and raid quietly. For only a little extra I’ll throw in rubber gloves and a dive mask. You’ll be set.
No, not even LEOs. They can use a gun at work, but they dont need to take one home and they dont need to own it.
It depends on your definition of essential. If essential means the minimum amount of the economy needed to safely keep goods and services available to people during this crisis, then gun stores aren’t essential.
You don’t need gun stores to keep people fed, and clothed. You don’t need them to keep the lights on, the roads safe, communication flowing. You don’t need them to keep doctors and nurses working, to keep pharmacies filling prescriptions, and drug companies manufacturing medicine.
The list of essential businesses are about keeping enough stuff running so that things don’t go completely to shit. Now, the fact that we need some core business running opens up other businesses. For example, you need to keep car repair shops open because all of these other essential employees need to get to work, and they can’t if their cars are broken This isn’t true of gun shops.
I’m generally a big fan of the constitution; but I am personally having a bit of a hard time thinking if gun shops are essential. If we treat the first amendment and the second amendment equally, I would say gun shops are just as essential as newspapers (note I’m not saying internet news sources…just newspapers).
But I really am having a hard time saying we need to have gun shops open at this time…
THen again, we think that liquor stores are ‘essential’ and I can’t make a reasonable argument for why they should be open either.
To me, if we keep liquor stores and newspapers open; we should keep gun stores open…but I’m not hard set on my commitment.
I don’t know about overreach, but the local county has said we must wear face masks when we go to the stores now. It goes in to effect today, but they only said something Thursday night. I’ve turned off the news in the last week or so and would not have heard a thing had someone else not told me. It’s a $500 fine the first time and $750 after that. I find that to be a really steep fine, and to not get the message out any better I find the couple of day notice a bit short.
I have heard reports of a few motorcyclists who had gotten $750 fines for being on their motorcycles. It’s hard to tell if they were being jerks or not, but they did show copies of their tickets for violating ‘stay at home orders.’ I get having fines for hosting parties or something like that, but for going out to pick up food and getting a ride in sounds like a bad idea to me.
Going for a drive getting $100 fine is fine to me in a city, where the viral load could be high enough to justify it. But, in most places, your car is as safe as going for a walk, and those can be necessary just to help you deal. I’ve always assumed you could get sunshine even under lockdown (if not while in actual quarantine).
Masks and peace ordinances are perfectly fine. The former is a minimal reduction on freedom, and the latter is just normal–there are lots of noisy things I can’t do at certain times. Plus, well, anything that blows air can spread droplets.
Guns can be essential to life outside of cities. City dwellers don’t get that calling the police or animal control isn’t an option when they are half an hour away. The rural/urban divide on guns actually exists separately from the political divide, just because of what is useful in different environments.
That said, I don’t see any reason for the shops themselves to be open directly. They can do what other smaller shops do, and allow people to call, drive up, and get the item without going inside. No one needs to be browsing a gun shop at this time.
And, yes, abortions are needed services. They are urgent, and thus there is irreparable harm if they are stopped. But people are upset that they can’t do their intimidation tactics to try and stop them.
No, it definitely is overreach. They’re directly stealing shipments of items that do not belong to them, because they were too dumb to have enough stockpiled (despite knowing of the threat for years). Maybe if it were being handed out according to need, it could be justified, but it isn’t.
Since this isn’t the quarantine forum, I’ll be explicit: Trump is using this to give equipment to states he wants to support him and take them away from those that don’t. That’s definitely overreach, at minimum.
No offense, but if you’ve turned off the news for the last week, how do you expect them to “get the message out any better” to you?
One of my favorite examples of ‘‘blatant overreach’’ is Chicago’s mayor threatening arrest and/or $500 fines for people daring to ride bikes or go on a run.
“Walks near home are fine, but Lightfoot warned against long bike rides, walks and runs where people might congregate.”
http://business.com/government/lightfoot-threatens-shut-down-parks-lakefront
“Officer, I was just out for a mile run and there’s no one close by.” “How do you know you won’t wind up where people are congregating? Hands behind your back, you’re under arrest.”
I’ve turned off the news, not everything. I’ve gotten sick of nothing but corona the entire time. It is only my county, Montgomery County MD, not the rest of the state. I’ve just scanned a few pages of the local Washington Post and found nothing on it, as well as WTOP, which is the local news organization and radio doesn’t have anything either.
As for how to get the message out better? Lets see, they send Amber alerts and Silver alerts to my phone all the time. They send weather alerts to my phone. There are signs on all the stores about staying 6 feet away, and how the county has limited the number of people in the stores. They will physically mail us two or three things for each election, they could do the same for this.
I went out to shop yesterday because I don’t have a mask. I didn’t see any signs saying starting on Monday you must wear a mask.
I will say, that after a bit of trying to find something, the original statement seems to have been bad, there is a fine, but it’s for the store and not the individual. They should still make more of an effort to make sure people know. I’m not the only one that doesn’t pay much attention to the news.
The argument for liquor stores being essential is that alcoholic withdrawal can be fatal if not medically managed; the public health people don’t want ERs clogged with detoxing alcoholics.
Best t-shirt memorializing an overreach by the Mayor of Denver, who shut down liquor stores and dispensaries and then rescinded it two hours later.
PETCO is open and purchasing anything from them isn’t essential (you can get dog and cat food at any grocery store. Hell, Walmart and Hy Vee have bird seed and such as well).
Many clothing stores are open with pick up options or limited customers allowed inside.
*
As long as a place doesn’t break any state or city rules regarding the number of people congregating in one place*, it should be allowed to conduct its business. Just because you don’t like guns doesn’t mean gun stores need to be singled out or that this is your opportunity to restrict people from purchasing them, regardless of what their reasoning is. I don’t see you whining about any other business being open.
Thank god our coffee shops are able to be open, as I wouldn’t want the emergency rooms flooded with caffeine withdrawal patients.
President claiming he’s gonna decide when we stop doing the social distance thing. If you’re over 60 or have a pre-existing condition like diabetes, lung issues, immune compromise, etc., don’t be listening to the captains of industry and their hench-pols on this one.